Alco PA and FA 2023

[Dennis Holler]

Yes, Bob and I talked a bit back and forth on the messages. I haven't got around to trying to solder it together yet unfortunately.

[bob turner]

I don't mind being #1 for a couple days. I just don't want to be #1,2, and 3 for a week. Irrational, but then I personally consider this hobby irrational. If I could take a pill . . .

A lot to answer in the last three or four posts - I shall try.

Dennis is no longer casting, and while he may have a small inventory, he does not actively sell. Bob Stevenson has all the molds, and does custom work if he can find the correct mold. He just did a pile of check valves and washout plugs for me. He has done truly esoteric things, like a brass replacement for my warped Zamac underframes for my 70 year old collection of Varney box cars! If you are building a Challenger, Bob has a lot of the Lobaugh parts.

I will prepare a "tutorial" for assembling a set of Diesel castings. I may have to solicit a set of castings, since all mine have long since been assembled. Yes, they need to be securely fastened together and clamped before heat is applied. No, I no longer know what the best flux is, but I had some from Easy Flo that really cleaned things up, and some paste from Oatey that was truly spectacular. For now, I just make the brass really, really shiny before assembly, and apply a standard paste flux before heating. More on that later.

The Right Of Way PAs are almost full size, when measured against the Overland. The vertical dimension is shy 1/32, or a full 3" in O Scale. You would miss it if you were not really scrutinizing.

I will go back and look to see if I answered everything. For Martin, I will try for some better Mastodon photos today - might not make it. I have a mission in about an hour which will see me driving up the freeway . . . yuk!

[bob turner]

Here is the first PA - all I did was solder in a pair of .032 brass angles, pre-drilled for truck bolsters. Dennis did all of the hard work. The PRR unit is Overland, but with Lionel dummy trucks converted to 2-rail.



The next shot is the stock ROW model, with Dennis' superb pilot casting fastened with JB Weld. Fuel tanks need to be replaced or curved, and trucks obviously need brake parts. Other than that, and a missing windshield, this is simply not a bad model at all. I wonder if their ATSF version was plated?



Note the difference in the grillework above the rear car body - the bare model has the CLW grille; the NYC unit is as delivered. It doesn't look all that bad unless the background is all lit up like this. The big stripe on the background is why photography in the Winter is difficult for me. Too many cat enclosure structures at that Sun angle.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

The Right Of Way PAs are almost full size, when measured against the Overland. The vertical dimension is shy 1/32, or a full 3" in O Scale. You would miss it if you were not really scrutinizing.

Pretty sure that 1/32 ='s 1.5" not 3" -- 1/16" would be 3", I think. I can see 1/16 pretty easily; a 32rd might take a reference point to see it.

I will try for some better Mastodon photos today - might not make it. I have a mission in about an hour which will see me driving up the freeway . . . yuk!

When you get to it....freeways, yuk indeed....although it could be worse; could be the DC Beltway...

[SWrailroader]

Bob,
I agree the ROW MODELS are fairly nice and Ajin fabricated the windshield correctly IMO. The ATSF VERSION is not plated unfortunately.
Rob

[bob turner]

Martin is of course correct - my math skills go down in the early morning. I am a whiz at vector calculus, but lousy at arithmetic.

Today's comments are geared toward those drop-dead gorgeous PSC trucks. I actually prefer one piece sideframes, for a number of reasons - one, they are thinner, and hence not affected as much by our five foot gauge. They are a lot less work, and have more realistic looking (to my eye) coil springs.

However, the sprung versions - PSC and notably CLW - are works of art, if delicate.

The PSC trucks have one glaring flaw - the brake cylinders extend well past the car body sides. The trucks are 11 scale feet wide over the cylinders. Looks great on my "truck" display, but under a ten foot wide carbody they don't look so hot.

So I am assembling another set. This is a no-joke assembly - probably better done with a resistance soldering setup. I will use an 80 Watt iron on the final assembly, to get max heat in there quickly. Toughest part is the brake shoes and beams, particularly the center ones. Complete tinning and lots of local heat is the secret.

But to narrow the cylinders, I carve about 20% of the cylinder away where it meets the truck frame, to move it a good 1/16" inboard. Even that will have it parallel to the carbody side, where the real thing was inset a bit. But hey - way better! I have completed one side frame so far - it will take a week.

In other news, I am negotiating for a set of PA castings. May take a while, but if they arrive, I will jig them up and take some good photos and make drawings. It may take as long as a year, but as you can see, things move slowly in this end of the hobby - 2027 is almost right around the corner!

To whet your appetite - I do the nose first. I make sure it is dead straight, then clamp with a threaded bar through the side windows. A spreader that precisely separates the sides is inserted at the bottom rear. I do cut the windshields first, since I can clamp the sides in my end mill easier when they are still halves. A C-clamp holds the nose down by the pilot area.

Once the nose is perfectly soldered (MAPP gas, a pencil tip, 60/40 solder, and flux) I add reinforcements. One is on the nose, serving as a backup to the solder and as a coupler mount plate. They are held with 2-56 brass screws, flat head, so I can file the slots off. I often flux and solder those local areas, but it is not really necessary.

Attaching sides and roof is the last step. the sides are held to the roof with aluminum spacers, using the round porthole windows. The aluminum spacers are drilled and tapped 2-56 for the window inserts (just fancy shouldered aluminum washers) and drilled to clear a pair of 2-56 screws that go partway into the roof casting.

The sides get mated to the nose using screws on the roof area (there are bulkheads on the nose and roof that match) and1/4" square brass on the sides, properly joggled to match the varying thickness of the side and nose. These brass square rods are going to be the truck bulkhead mounting rails, and are positioned roughly 1/8" above the lower edge of side and nose. They too are held with 2-56 F/H brass screws.

A picture is worth a thousand words, but you will have to wait on that - maybe by the time the midterm elections are done? That will come quickly, I am sure.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

.....vector calculus.....

Not one of my favorite courses.....

[SWrailroader]

Ken Kraft unbuilt kits. Something for me to tackle in retirement. Thank goodness for low melt solder. It makes soldering these big cast pieces easier. It looks like the attachment feature is not working on this forum to add photos.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

It looks like the attachment feature is not working on this forum to add photos.

Has not for a very long time now...you need to host your photos elsewhere.

Check out options here: viewforum.php?f=3

[bob turner]

So the PA that is coming is already assembled, and it appears to be straight. If it isn't I will heat it up, and use my kit on it for soldering. But just in case it is a very long time before another casting set needs soldering, I spread my kit out for a photo. Herewith:



I was going to number a few of the parts, but they are really straightforward. The large threaded rod goes through the cab side windows. The collection of spreader bars are self-explanatory - but note the flanged washers that fit in the PA portholes. They also fit in FT or F# portholes.

All spreaders mostly have holes for long screws that go in the roof - Roofs are thick, so you needn't drill holes all the way through - just deep enough for a bottoming tap and enough threads to hold.

There is a drill template that serves to align holes in the roof with tapped holes in the nose castings.

Not shown are a collection of giant C clamps - these get used wherever necessary. I can put a flat plate on the bottom of the sides and clamp the roof. I can clamp the end, rather than screwing it in place. Lots of tricks, but as always the key is clean brass, good flux, gloves, a pencil torch on a MAPP cylinder, and maybe a few fire bricks.

I realize that this is a truly obscure corner of our hobby, but I have noticed prices (at least asking prices) going skyward on the Bay. So maybe there is more than four of us? Hope this helps fledgling blacksmiths.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Thank you for showing those bits! The set up and then holding everything just so is important to getting stuff assembled.

[up148]

Yeah, from a rookie solder guy, set-up and other preparation makes all the difference between a bad, good and excellent soldering job. Sometimes I ask myself, "what did I do different this time that made the job nice"......so far I chalk it up to luck, but, practice makes perfect.

[bob turner]

Turns out that the unit from SW is mostly screwed together with 2-56 steel screws. Nose was well soldered, so I will sort of simulate the clamping, but looks like I will be able to get some photos of this thing as it jumps into the solder jig. The nose was extremely well done, with the top lamp open for a light bulb and the headlight grille artfully simulated. Windshield needs a teeny bit of help. I can do that.

Assembly was as good as I have seen - took a good look to ascertain that it had not been soldered. But good thing, because the interior was full of 1/4" plate brass, making it about twice as heavy as the usual cast PA. I will replace the steel screws with brass, just to hold the alignment, and apply the full panoply of clamps and spreaders for our photo session.

As an aside, this is the second set of CLW castings where I have dealt with a cut opening in the side for that illuminated ATSF sign. Those openings bother me, even though the real thing apparently had them cut into the stainless sides. I will be filling it with brass.

All this happens after I finish a 4-6-2 Wagon Top boiler for SW. Wagon tops with steep tapers are a challenge - you start on the taper with major and minor diameters well inside the ends of the taper, then carefully disc sand and measure until you have the exact mating dimensions. Even then, the joint often must be disguised with boiler bands. More on that in the ATSF Steam thread.

[SWrailroader]

Bob,
I look forward to your presentation. I have assembled a cast FT B unit using jigs and solder alone. It seems obvious that screws are much better than jigs. One of the jigs was wood and caught fire.

I used a propane plumbers torch which was kind of awkward but sufficed. Propane is cheaper than MAPP. A micro torch would be better, but everyone that I have purchased soon failed.

Also this cast bronze FT compelled me to start using low melt solder. What a revelation! I mostly do resistance soldering and makes the job so much easier. It is 50% Sn, 32% Pb, 18% Cd and melts 293 F, instead of 361 F for 60/40 solder. Comes with acid core flux. Purchased it here: https://www.sra-shops.com/acid-flux-cor ... ound-spool

Rob

[Rufus T. Firefly]

It is 50% Sn, 32% Pb, 18% Cd ......

I'm surprised that you can buy something that's 18% Cd.......