Midwestern Model Works Redux

Discuss All Facets of 2-Rail, 1/48 Scale, Model Railroading
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sarge
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Re: Midwestern Model Works Redux

Postby sarge » Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:04 pm

up148 wrote:But, I have heard of this forum being referenced as a bunch of cranky old SOB's, who just like to complain and fight about everything.


Sadly, Butch, those who say that are right. I don’t care the “scars”; I have my own but it doesn’t excuse rudeness any more than calling it “plain speaking”, free speech, or making any other excuse for incivility. You want to know why “this place is dead”, ask yourselves why anyone would find anything positive trying to post in the acidic environment this has become.

It’s why I don’t post anything here, because mere conversation (let alone putting up a photo or two) here is a minefield and I’m to excuse someone’s nasty disposition because they feel bad today? No. I won’t, nor will many of those 2-railers you mention this forum has lost.

So no, Bob. the lack of postings isn’t because of having to sign in or having to supply your own photo host or other such minutiae. Its because it’s not a pleasant place to share one’s hobby with other likeminded modellers. Its very simple, really.

Just so you know, I wouldn’t bother coming back and saying this the one time if I didn’t feel a loss for no longer having such a place as we used to enjoy anymore.

I’ll bow back out now, and leave you to it.

J. S. Bach
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 9:30 pm

Re: Midwestern Model Works Redux

Postby J. S. Bach » Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:16 pm

ScaleCraft wrote: ...snip... or....I could start up the evilbait humour postings again....

Please don't. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen:

J. S. Bach
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 9:30 pm

Re: Midwestern Model Works Redux

Postby J. S. Bach » Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:18 pm

Rufus T. Firefly wrote: ...snip... This solves for me a problem that did not exist - I'll not waste my time here any more.

No, please keep on posting your builds. I do really enjoy looking at them; and, even owning a couple!

J. S. Bach
Posts: 5820
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 9:30 pm

Re: Midwestern Model Works Redux

Postby J. S. Bach » Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:24 pm

sarge wrote: ...snip... You want to know why “this place is dead”, ask yourselves why anyone would find anything positive trying to post in the acidic environment this has become. ...snip...


Not to mention the constant straying into politics by a certain few! That almost caused me to go over the hill a while back.

E7
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Re: Midwestern Model Works Redux

Postby E7 » Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:31 am

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
E7 wrote:Your biggest issue is, there are precious few people interested in late 19th century railroading. You're a minority (19th century) within a minority (O Scale). If you think other people are here for your entertainment or to promote the things you like, you're delusional. If you want to build models, go build them and stop whining! If you post stuff other people find interesting, you will solve your own problem.


Rufus T. Firefly wrote:Actually, I model early 20th century.


My "minority" comment still applies.

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:Your post presents exactly why we have no model building of any era presented here.


Unlike you, I generally don't make any comments on things I don't care for, and that's more than you can say.

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:This solves for me a problem that did not exist - I'll not waste my time here any more.


That's YOUR choice.

up148
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Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:52 am

Re: Midwestern Model Works Redux

Postby up148 » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:51 am

sarge wrote:
up148 wrote:But, I have heard of this forum being referenced as a bunch of cranky old SOB's, who just like to complain and fight about everything.


Sadly, Butch, those who say that are right. I don’t care the “scars”; I have my own but it doesn’t excuse rudeness any more than calling it “plain speaking”, free speech, or making any other excuse for incivility. You want to know why “this place is dead”, ask yourselves why anyone would find anything positive trying to post in the acidic environment this has become.

It’s why I don’t post anything here, because mere conversation (let alone putting up a photo or two) here is a minefield and I’m to excuse someone’s nasty disposition because they feel bad today? No. I won’t, nor will many of those 2-railers you mention this forum has lost.

So no, Bob. the lack of postings isn’t because of having to sign in or having to supply your own photo host or other such minutiae. Its because it’s not a pleasant place to share one’s hobby with other likeminded modellers. Its very simple, really.

Just so you know, I wouldn’t bother coming back and saying this the one time if I didn’t feel a loss for no longer having such a place as we used to enjoy anymore.

I’ll bow back out now, and leave you to it.



As you've done many times over the years, with OST and on forums, you've nailed it Sarge. I've been thinking about this forum a lot lately (I really enjoy it most of the time) and have discussed how to fix it with other members in private emails. The condescending and acerbic comments has to stop, if you can't say something positive in a thread, then say nothing at all. Save the BS for the "Club Car" section, where it is expected and accepted.

It's obvious we need to attract new blood/membership if we expect the forum to stay alive and I feel we scare potential members away. The attitudes and comments would not be tolerated in the workplace or even on the street, so let's not show our *sses here.

There are other problems, like getting new members signed up.......look at the fellow who tried to join a few months ago and it took all but an act of god to get him on board.

I also think purging the photo section so it could be used would be a positive move, as it allow modelers who don't have a photo hosting service or want a photo hosting service, to post photos. It really doesn't matter how easy it might be for some to find a hosting service, why should we have to when the forum has that capability and it was used before.

Making it easier to join, easier to post photos and using a civil tongue when responding on a thread would go a long way to changing the forum for the positive.

I honestly wonder if the forum owner hasn't told the moderators to do nothing to help the forum grow, as he/she just wants it to go away. It changed drastically several years back I guess when it changed ownership. I know it has to be a thankless task to own and moderate it, but ask for some help, rather than allow it to fade away. Just my $.02.

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ScaleCraft
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Re: Midwestern Model Works Redux

Postby ScaleCraft » Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:29 pm

up148 wrote:
I honestly wonder if the forum owner hasn't told the moderators to do nothing to help the forum grow, as he/she just wants it to go away. It changed drastically several years back I guess when it changed ownership. I know it has to be a thankless task to own and moderate it, but ask for some help, rather than allow it to fade away. Just my $.02.


Sort of, not quite, maybe, then again, maybe not.
The owner, Bill Lango, died three years ago this week.
Lee (one of Bill's sons in law) initially took over as "Moderator2".
Sort of a hands-off approach.

You gotta stop and think about what you're asking.
The free-for-all old west saloon and OK Corral type of forum or the North Korea approach?

I'm happy with my double-barrel black powder Damascus barrelled exposed hammer shotgun.
Dave....gone by invitation

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rogruth
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Re: Midwestern Model Works Redux

Postby rogruth » Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:19 pm

I agree, Dave. But it should be easier to become a member of this forum.
I don't know how any part of a forum works, type very slowly and know
just enough about computers to be able to take part in forums and send
some mail.
roger

I support thread drift.
If God didn't want women to be looked at, He would have made 'em ugly. RAH

bob turner
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Re: Midwestern Model Works Redux

Postby bob turner » Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:33 pm

I shall agree with the above two posts. Unless I was the source of the offending political stuff I fail to see where the problem is.
Robust discussion is the American way! I am proud to be a part of that tradition. The internet makes it more difficult than normal conversation, because there are so many ways to get misinterpreted.

I suppose the lack of "moderation" and the difficulty involved in membership go hand in hand. I personally value the lack of moderation, and applaud the forum management for letting the "club car" exist in its current wild-west incarnation. That doesn't mean I have to go there all that often.

But that's just me. I will continue to post photos here, and comment when I feel like it. For those offended by my left-leaning politics, I offer no apology. I get along with those of the opposite philosophy quite well in real life.

Not leaving. Bob.

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rogruth
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Re: Midwestern Model Works Redux

Postby rogruth » Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:46 pm

Bob,
I don't think I disagree with you. I just may not say it as well.
Can't speak for Dave but think he may be about the same as me.

I may not always agree with someones politics but do agree that
they don't have or need to be the same as mine.I do tend to be a
little conservative but cannot agree completely with any political
party.
roger

I support thread drift.
If God didn't want women to be looked at, He would have made 'em ugly. RAH

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ScaleCraft
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Re: Midwestern Model Works Redux

Postby ScaleCraft » Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:10 pm

Molotov Cocktail!
Newsome!
Dave....gone by invitation

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rogruth
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Re: Midwestern Model Works Redux

Postby rogruth » Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:17 pm

ScaleCraft wrote:Molotov Cocktail!
Newsome!

???????
roger

I support thread drift.
If God didn't want women to be looked at, He would have made 'em ugly. RAH

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ScaleCraft
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Re: Midwestern Model Works Redux

Postby ScaleCraft » Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:22 pm

rogruth wrote:
ScaleCraft wrote:Molotov Cocktail!
Newsome!

???????

Guys in California know. Just a name, no picking sides.
Dave....gone by invitation

up148
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Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:52 am

Re: Midwestern Model Works Redux

Postby up148 » Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:25 pm

I'm wasn't trying to demean anyone, I would just like the forum to be a little less acrid at times. If people disagree on a technique to use, not a problem, we are all different....but bashing someone because they think differently that you do is childish. If we were all sitting around at a club meeting we wouldn't act that way.

I could give a sh*t what happens on the Club Car section, as it's a free-for-all, but quite enjoyable most of the time, but we need to keep it over there guys.

Now, back to the problem of new members signing up. What can be done. Will the moderator accept help? Will the moderator allow an assistant who is active on the forum and can handle initial communications and then pass it on to him? ?????

Has anyone asked the moderator to purge old photos up to a certain date? Does anyone actually know or communicate with the moderator.

Here's the big question and I'm not sure if anyone can handle the responsibility, but would the current moderator/owner, sell/lease/partner the MTJ forum, to make it more user friendly. I have no idea what it takes to run a forum, I've only heard its a thankless task and cost money to host it.

One friend told me he expects "the lack of technological improvements" to crater this forum eventually, but I'm not a computer guy, so I'm not really certain what he means or what needs to be updated or what it costs.

We have this forum and OGR and I'd like to see this forum survive and grow. :D

herronpeter
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Re: Midwestern Model Works Redux

Postby herronpeter » Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:19 pm

I have been reading these last bunch of posts and agree with some of what’s been said but not all. I actually think all the RR forums have degraded to include a large bitch favor! I used to spend hours writing posts that were kinda tutorial in nature. I wanted to share my thoughts and techniques with people about things I had found to make jobs easier-sharing what I head learned. I’ve found there doesn’t seem to be much if any interest in these types of posts perhaps because they don’t bitch about anything!LOL. I've pasted below a lengthy 2 posts about Fast Tracks techniques ( hints, suggestions-whatever you want to call them) that I had posted on another forum. I got zippo… nada….. zero…… replies. Nor even a thanks anyway but we do it this way reply. I’d like your honest opinions about these posts. I think I’m wasting my time trying to share learned knowledge and techniques on forums.
Do you?
____________________

In my last post there seemed to be some interest in the Fast Tracks jigs and assembly fixtures made popular by Tim Warris and company in Canada. I thought I’d share my experience and thoughts about building a layout with them.




To start with I lost my layout to a house fire back in 2009 so I was starting over from nothing. I was able to salvage some On30 rolling stock and locomotives and some buildings that were stored in cabinets and underneath things as they did not get too soaked. The layout, track, scenery and most electronics were soggy toast.

I wanted to have an O scale layout with O standard as well as On30 track and was limited to an area in my fiancé’s basement of about 19’ X 18’, hence my one 36” curve.

I purchased jigs in O standard (code 100 branchline) of 36”, 40”, 42” and 48” curves as well as straight and # 4.5 and # 6 turnouts. In On30, I purchased (code 70 branchline) #4, #5, #5wye, # 6, and # 6-3 way. Also a straight and curves of 22, 24, 26, 28, 30”. I mention all these as, had I to do it again, I would not have purchased so many different radii jigs. The turnout jigs (for me anyway) are a must as they allow a fine working turnout to be made over and over in about 45 minutes. Get the frog and point tools as well as they save a lot of time. I’m using code 100 and code 70 as I am modeling an old, back woodsy outfit. Also, I think the smaller rail makes the tighter curves I have look broader.




As to the curved track I would still get a jig for 36” (O) and 22” (On30) as this is tight a radius is critical to have consistent. For the second radius in O I would get 44” the other 2 in On30, 26 and 30, saving the cost of 2 jigs.



Here’s why:

As I started laying the O standard track, I used to make an easement for a 40” curve, for example, by using the 48” jig to attach about 4 ties, then the 42” for the next 2 and then down to 40” and then back at the other end. I then found using Tim’s sweepsticks and a couple of track gauges after soldering only the inside rail of the curve to the PC board ties in the jig gives you much more flexibility for easements and variable radii curves, much more natural looking and a lot faster. Except for the accuracy needed for minimum radii you could get away with using just a straight jig. Here’s quick video of using sweepsticks to make easements.



https://youtu.be/oU-ZbQlObN8



Track and roadbed alignment: what I’ve learned.

My sub roadbed is what used to be called ½ inch plywood with homasote on top. I use cork roadbed but do not like the commercial stuff as it’s too thick. I buy rolls of 1/16th inch cork at Michaels, Ace or wherever I can get it on sale and cut it into strips 1 ¼” wide, half the total width needed (10 scale feet) with my power miter saw.

Here’s where it gets interesting.

The basic premise of the Fast Track system is soldering NS rail to PC board “ties” for alignment and strength. The PC ties are spaced at the same spacing on all their jigs and tie racks of the same type, i.e. Mainline, Branchline and Siding (in O). I use Branchline which works out to 5 wooden ties between every PC tie. In theory one loads up the “tie rack” with wooden ties, leaving out every 5th tie for the PC tie, then presses some masking tape to the tops of the ties. You then pull the whole strip out and place it on the cork you’ve laid down on the homasote and then set the rail and PC ties down onto the wooden ties and glue or spike. Easy, right? Well for straight track it is because a straight line drawn with ruler is always straight and everything will line up fine. The only straight track I have is in my small 4 track yard at one end of the run with the turntable, fuel and water facilities and enginehouse. The rest of the layout has curves. The problem comes because of the basic premise of the rail and PC ties being assembled first. No matter how carefully you measure and mark it is nearly impossible to get the wooden ties lined up with the PC ties and the edge of the cork roadbed and everything centered under the rail, all at the same time. The masking tape is not that flexible and it also blocks your view of any centerline you have. I’ve tried thin masking tape, plastic electrical tape and nothing seems to help. As you bend the strip of ties to follow the curve, the ties lose their spacing to the PC ties. Using slow setting glue for the wooden ties allows some time to monkey around getting everything lined up, but it’s very time consuming.




I now do it this way. Assemble your rail and PC ties exactly how you want the curves to lay and place this on the homasote. I then use a little wooden jig to slide the marking pen between the rails for a center line. Remove the rail and using water based Weldwood Contact cement (no stink or getting high with this stuff!) spread a thin coat on the homasote and the cork. Once dry carefully apply one side following the centerline and then the other. Get it right because you only get one shot at it. I tip the cork so its edge follows the center line then lower it to final position. Once down, run a wallpaper edge roller over it. Done. Prior to laying the track I run a 6” long sanding block over it to get it smooth.

Put the rail with the PC ties down joining it to the last piece laid and use a clamp to hold it in place. I now place a wood tie centered with a little wooden jig between the PC ties and use CA to attach it to the cork. I spike these in place so I can remove the clamp. I can now run a train over the new track to see how everything works. Later I use the same spacing jig for the 2 ties needed to fill the gap. I spike every second tie with the smallest micro spikes I can find where they are visible. I use bigger spikes on the non visible side. Don’t worry about the different thickness of the wood ties and the PC ties as that will disappear with the ballasting.

For turnout control I use Caboose Industries HO scale high switchstands which I find exactly correct in O scale. To control frog polarity I attach a micro switch under the switchstand with an extension up through a hole that is activated by the sliding bar of the stand.

Painting the PC ties and rail. I pour some Polyscale roof brown or Tamiya medium brown into 3 small cups and add a little black to one and white to the other and mix the shades on the ties of assembled rail. On the rail I use Floquil rail brown (stinky) but have ordered Micro Luc rail brown in acrylic.

Ballast. I make my own using a 50lb sack of sand, different sized sieves and color it with my trusty sanded grout.

That’s about it. I have found the Fast Tracks system to be of the highest quality and easy to use. Like everything you learn tricks as you go along.




A few musts: You should use Micro Engineering rail as others will not fit the slot in the assembly jig properly. You must wash off the rail and PC ties with soapy water after or you will get a lovely green patina on the rail and ties and the paint won’t stick to the ties or rail. You must use a good quality solder and flux. I prefer my resistance soldering station as the tweezers heat both sides of the rail web quickly. Now if I could devise a way to hold two pieces of solder at the same time…………….!

Have fun and now go build something!!




Peter

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Original Post
PE
Peter E BMember
The above post was actually written in 2014. I needed to change my password due to a data breach and in searching around the site for how to do this (not that easy!) I discovered this post had never been submitted. I thought it might be useful to anyone using fast track jigs. I did add the video that was missing.

In the 7 years since I wrote this I have all the O standard track laid and have started on the On30. No, it did NOT take all of those years to do the bench and track work! Building structures, bridges, trestles, painting 7 brass locomotives, installing DCC and dual speakers in 9 of the O scale and decoders and speakers in 8 of the On30 engines, and doing some scenery took up the rest of the time.

I do have some updated methods I use to make the O scale track laying quite a bit quicker. I have discovered that gluing a 2/32” thick strip of wood to the bottom of the PCB tie makes it the exact same height as the full size Kappler or Mt Albert tie. I use balsa wood as it’s cheaper and takes glue well. Prior to putting the ties into the jig I rough up the bottom of the PCB tie with 80 grit sandpaper. I still use the method in the video by soldering both rails to the first tie and then only one side allowing the the track to bend. I now glue on the balsa under tie spacers. Now over to the prepared roadbed and using pushpins I align the track where I want it sometimes using quick sticks, sometime freehand. Once everything is aligned the way I want it I use 2 track gauges and solder the second rail. Once that is done I draw the centerline so I can lay the cork. Here’s the advantage of the balsa spacers. Once I have everything aligned the way I want it on the cork, I use thin CA to glue these down. Next I slide and glue a full sized tie under the rail in the middle of the PCB ties. Once this is spiked you have track solid enough to run on and test integrity with as it’s supported about every 1 and 3/4 inches. You can then add the rest of the ties and ballast at your leisure. I do not spike these.






I hope some of you can use some of these methods to simplify hand laying track.


Thanks,



Peter


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