Unreasonable Expectations???????

[E7]

This is just to elicit some opinions from the 3 rail side of the house.

There have been some heated 'discussions' over on OGR recently about colors and fidelity to the prototype from Lionel. I have NO IDEA what their (Lionel) mission statement regarding product might be, or if they even have one (other than to make all the profit they can).

I have NO animosity or disdain for they who choose the 3 rail side, or the objects of their lust, but I think some people have slipped a cog expecting any kind of accuracy from a company that is essentially selling (and has been for years) toy trains.

My thought is, if you want accuracy, maybe it is time to go two rail (and I am in no way claiming some of 2 rail is the paragon of correctness).

[healey36]

...a company that is essentially selling (and has been for years) toy trains.

I'm not sure anyone buying 3-rail toy trains should have an expectation of drop-dead precise, prototypical color matching, but that's just my opinion. To be honest, if you painted something using actual UP yellow as prepared by UP, or whatever, it's unlikely to look right on a small model, i.e. if you looked into a bucket of UP yellow, than looked at a freshly painted 1:1 UP yellow locomotive from a distance, the color would look quite different. The tonal characteristics of color change with distance, i.e they scale. I don't think folks realize that.

However, some efforts are clearly way off to start.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

This is just to elicit some opinions from the 3 rail side of the house.

There have been some heated 'discussions' over on OGR recently about colors and fidelity to the prototype from Lionel. I have NO IDEA what their (Lionel) mission statement regarding product might be, or if they even have one (other than to make all the profit they can).

I have NO animosity or disdain for they who choose the 3 rail side, or the objects of their lust, but I think some people have slipped a cog expecting any kind of accuracy from a company that is essentially selling (and has been for years) toy trains.

My thought is, if you want accuracy, maybe it is time to go two rail (and I am in no way claiming some of 2 rail is the paragon of correctness).

Maybe, but Lionel has also produced a fair number of cars that 2-rail modelers have diligently converted over to 2-rail use for several years now, so I don't know that you can blanket categorize their products as purely toy trains, and as such in parallel perhaps not all of the 3-rail enthusiasts are just collectors and toy train buyers anymore.

[chuck]

I guess everyone needs a hobby, even if it's just complaining about stuff.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I guess everyone needs a hobby, even if it's just complaining about stuff.

Isn't that why the internet exists?

[E7]

Maybe, but Lionel has also produced a fair number of cars that 2-rail modelers have diligently converted over to 2-rail use for several years now, so I don't know that you can blanket categorize their products as purely toy trains, and as such in parallel perhaps not all of the 3-rail enthusiasts are just collectors and toy train buyers anymore.

My thread, so I'm calling anything that won't run on 2 rail track with DC power a "Toy Train" (gotta have some limitations {says Dirty Harry}). Those diligent 2 rail modelers have 2 railed ALL kinds of 'CRAP' over the years, and just because they did so doesn't make it 'bonafide'. As for what is good/bad Lionel wise, I'll quote the editor of a well known publication: "If all readers who have answers to what cars Lionel has produced that are scale and true to a prototype will send that information on to me.....we'll get that information back to all of you..... Feel free to add/insert the relevant E-mail address if you so desire! I don't know of any myself, or I would list them. That said, they may exist.

[ScaleCraft]

[ Those diligent 2 rail modelers have 2 railed ALL kinds of 'CRAP' over the years, and just because they did so doesn't make it 'bonafide'. As for what is good/bad Lionel wise, I'll quote the editor of a well known publication: "If all readers who have answers to what cars Lionel has produced that are scale and true to a prototype will send that information on to me.....we'll get that information back to all of you..... Feel free to add/insert the relevant E-mail address if you so desire! I don't know of any myself, or I would list them. That said, they may exist.

I have had a bunch of Lionel converted to scale trucks. Cars went in the dumpster, trucks went into a box.
I have one left.....a tank car, 2755 or so. Really should back-convert it. Came in a bunch of other stuff.
Of course, I do have my three cabooses.....but they're the other way, scale carbody, tinplate trucks.

But: I have some non-tinplate cars on scale trucks that would make tinplate stuff look good.

I should post a photo of one in particular I am thinking of.

Seen some 2333/2343 F units with scale wheels.....did not look bad.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Maybe, but Lionel has also produced a fair number of cars that 2-rail modelers have diligently converted over to 2-rail use for several years now, so I don't know that you can blanket categorize their products as purely toy trains, and as such in parallel perhaps not all of the 3-rail enthusiasts are just collectors and toy train buyers anymore.

My thread, so I'm calling anything that won't run on 2 rail track with DC power a "Toy Train" (gotta have some limitations {says Dirty Harry}). Those diligent 2 rail modelers have 2 railed ALL kinds of 'CRAP' over the years, and just because they did so doesn't make it 'bonafide'. As for what is good/bad Lionel wise, I'll quote the editor of a well known publication: "If all readers who have answers to what cars Lionel has produced that are scale and true to a prototype will send that information on to me.....we'll get that information back to all of you..... Feel free to add/insert the relevant E-mail address if you so desire! I don't know of any myself, or I would list them. That said, they may exist.

Really? The Gla hopper car they produced was very good and and takes about 15 min to put onto 2 rail track if you know how to use a screwdriver. It's also about $150 less than the comparable brass one which makes putting together a reasonable train very possible for anyone.

BTW, still working with an author on answering that question - what Lionel cars are scale and true to a prototype. There was a Gon that I recall to be quite good as well.

But if you want to design your statement into something where you are already correct no matter, then I'm done here.

[E7]

But if you want to design your statement into something where you are already correct no matter, then I'm done here.

No great loss!

[v8vega]

I read Model Railroader and the HO guys especially will go to a lot of work and some expense to have a engine thats exactly like the real one. Only a handfull of their most dedicated friends would know.
Same in our group with people who spend a lot of money for a real rare model, again only a handfull of knowledgeable people know that it's different or care.

[ScaleCraft]

I read Model Railroader and the HO guys especially will go to a lot of work and some expense to have a engine thats exactly like the real one. Only a handfull of their most dedicated friends would know.
Same in our group with people who spend a lot of money for a real rare model, again only a handfull of knowledgeable people know that it's different or care.

And they model the Texas Pacific on the north side of Abilene on Wednesday, 19MAY1954, at exactly 1:36 PM, right down to the dust mote on the windscreen. (and that IS a Wednesday...historical accuracy and all that)

[Rufus T. Firefly]

From Sarge - a Lionel Pullman Standard gondola........2 railed.

[E7]

Sarge's car is very well done (as I would expect)!

That said, the topic of this thread was NOT meant to be about the accuracy of Lionel cars, but rather the expectations (realistic or not) of the 3 rail hoards on OGR who want 2 rail correctness from the BIG L. It is my contention that they are P-ing into the wind, and should consider going 2 rail where they would have a more legitimate bitch if things weren't dead on. If you think Lionel's primary mission is scale accuracy, you've missed the crayon and giraffe cars. Can you say toy?

[Big Jim]

Can you say toy?

Yeah! Bottom line, anything that is not 1:1 scale is a toy!
So, get over bigoted outlook!

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Some toys are toys and some toys are more and some toys are 1:1, too. It is good to have toys and better to have good toys...