What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

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G3750
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby G3750 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:25 pm

Updated 8/20/2019:

I've been busy working on the Power Distribution Panel - the board that will hold all the circuitry and distribute power to all 8 districts. I had been making great progress. In fact, yesterday I completed the board. I decided that the prudent thing to do was test it thoroughly before mounting it vertically under the layout and it's a good thing I did. Briefly, here's what's on the board:
  • Command Base, 3 DZ-2001 Data Wire Drivers (for switches), an Action Recorder Controller (ARC), and 2 Accessory Motor Controllers (AMC)
  • 4 Track Power Controllers (TPCs) for District 1, 6, 7, 8, respectively. Districts 1 & 6 are TPC-300s and districts 7 & 8 are TPC-400s.
  • Each power district is equipped with a fuse and a light bulb wired into the circuit as an indicator.
  • Each district receives power from either a PowerHouse 135 or a PowerHouse 180. Districts 1 & 6 have the PH135s; the rest are all PH180s.

Testing revealed that both TPC-300s and one of the TPC-400s would accept ID numbers, but would not send power to the track terminal blocks in either Conventional or Command modes. I verified this using a voltmeter as well as observing the dark light bulb. I re-read the directions, watched a Lionel YouTube video, and attempted this more than 5 times. No success, although I did get voltage readings of 1, 2, 3, and 4 volts at one point.

Roger, these were the TPC-300s I purchased used and sent to you in an attempt to get you back into TMCC. I fear they may have been damaged before they got to you. And that may explain why you had so much trouble getting TMCC to work on your layout. I confess that I never suspected these could be the culprit. I am sorry for any consternation I may have caused you. However, they simply don't work for me, either.

The other TPC-400, which I just purchased, was reportedly of low mileage. It's exhibiting the same behavior as the TPC-300s.

My original TPC-400, which I purchased new 15 years ago, worked perfectly.

At this point, I think the TPCs are just doorstops. Lionel no longer makes them and they are extremely expensive. The follow-on product is called a Legacy Powermaster. It does pretty much all that the TPC does except that a physical slider switch much be used to set it to either Conventional or Command mode. The TPC could be switched via CAB-1 button press. Also, the Legacy Powermaster is wireless and does not require COMM and DAT cables from the Command Base. Fortunately, the Legacy Powermaster has a street price in the $70-80 range. New TPC's, if they can be found at all, will be at least twice that, if not more.

Well, that's the latest. At best, the new Powermasters may fit in the spots currently occupied by the TPCs. At worst, I've got major wiring surgery to do.

More when I know it.

George
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby rogruth » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:54 am

George,
No apology needed.
I did think I was wiring something wrong.
roger

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby G3750 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:36 am

rogruth wrote:George,
No apology needed.
I did think I was wiring something wrong.


Roger, I'm willing to bet that you were not wiring something incorrectly. Check out this thread for the sordid details.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/nee ... 7475740660

It's my belief that these 2 TPCs were DOA. I never suspected that TPCs could fail like that. Of course, that's the problem with used electronics - you have no idea where they have been or how they have been (mis)treated. And having had no problem whatsoever with my own TPC-400, I had trouble fathoming what you were going through. :oops:

George
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby G3750 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:43 am

Updated 8/21/2019:

Regarding the power distribution panel, I plan to move the working TPC-400 to District 1 (the River Route). That will eliminate wiring changes to that area. And it will allow me to switch between Conventional (for the kids' and non-command equipped trains) and Command using the CAB-1. Districts 6, 7, and 8 will get new Legacy Powermasters, which will be set to Command mode via the slider switch.

That looks like a win-win scenario to me. :D

George
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby rogruth » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:23 am

George,
Wouldn't it be nice to know what went wrong with the TPCs? Lionel may know but they have a replacement now so probably have no further concern.
roger

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby G3750 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:45 pm

rogruth wrote:George,
Wouldn't it be nice to know what went wrong with the TPCs? Lionel may know but they have a replacement now so probably have no further concern.


It would be very nice to know what went wrong with them. Were they dropped? Overloaded? Dead-shorted? I have no clue. I do know that Lionel doesn't carry them anymore (replaced in 2016) and will tell a potential purchaser to check a dealer(s) for inventory. I'm pretty sure Lionel isn't interested in refurbishing them.

Oh well. It is what it is.

Today I placed an order for 3 Legacy Powermasters (6-37146).

http://www.lionel.com/products/legacy-p ... r-6-37146/

George
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby chuck » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:33 am

TPC can be set in ENG or TR mode. You can also accidentally program the max voltage to zero. You'll want to look up the factory reset key codes to make sure unit is malfunctioning and not just seriously misconfigured.

I'm out of town and do not have access to my manuals. I had this happen once when testing some stuff and I accidently reconfigured the TPC. Took a little while to reprogram the stuff to get it working the way I wanted and not the accidental mess I made forgetting addresses, settings and physically setting run/program switch.
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby G3750 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:54 am

chuck wrote:TPC can be set in ENG or TR mode. You can also accidentally program the max voltage to zero. You'll want to look up the factory reset key codes to make sure unit is malfunctioning and not just seriously misconfigured.

I'm out of town and do not have access to my manuals. I had this happen once when testing some stuff and I accidently reconfigured the TPC. Took a little while to reprogram the stuff to get it working the way I wanted and not the accidental mess I made forgetting addresses, settings and physically setting run/program switch.


Chuck, I appreciate the info. I've been through the manual a number of times, resetting the TPC to the default max power (AUX1, AUX2, 0) numerous times without effect. I think these have been dropped or damaged somehow.

George
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby chuck » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:13 am

The triacs may be blown. Does the Comm light blink when you try to address the device?
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby G3750 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:33 am

chuck wrote:The triacs may be blown. Does the Comm light blink when you try to address the device?

Yes, it does.

Is that a catastrophic, i.e. not economically feasible to repair, situation?
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby chuck » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:49 am

Depends on availability of parts.

Did you reset the device addresses as well as the default max speed. These guys are on the serial bus and will blink with any command to any device as ALL commands issued by the command base go out on the serial interface. They will only react to commands issued to their specific address.

It is possible that they were damaged by a drop. The power regulators could have fractured or be off the heat sink. A solder connection may have broken. Schematics have been posted. I think I have the PDF's somewhere.
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby chuck » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:04 am

Once I built a railroad, I made it run,
Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
Brother, can you spare a dime?

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby rogruth » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:28 pm

I read some of the technical stuff and it seems to be beyond me.
I don't know enough about all of the electronic stuff to really understand how things work.
Probably why I stayed with conventional control.
roger

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby G3750 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:04 pm

chuck wrote:Check out this site:

http://www.trainfacts.com/trainfacts/?p=65,


Very insightful.
Unfortunately, Dale is no longer with us.

Chuck, as usual, you are a font of information.

Thank you.

George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby chuck » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:13 pm

Yes, Dale's passing was a great loss. Fortunately the web site/ resources are still around. TPC was a pretty good product. Designed to be used with a PowerHouse. Second best, PW ZW. Anything else is a crap shoot unless you put an in line TSP to protect the input side. The smaller PW units and modern switching supplies can damage the TPC from the front side.
Once I built a railroad, I made it run,
Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
Brother, can you spare a dime?


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