Lionel Catalog 2019 1

[MartyE]

I'm going to be a downer here, but I think Lionel missed the mark with the LC+2.0
There's no middle market. LC+ was a good bargain at 250ish an engine. While yes, you get more features, I feel the lower end consumer is priced out.

I also think the prices are a bit out of hand. I know they are list, but still. For someone just looking to get into the hobby or someone who can't drop a ton of $$ on trains, the catalog is a putoff. Add to that all the recent QC issues & it leaves a sour taste in your mouth. I just picked up an LC+ Reading GP7 & I was crossing my fingers that it wouldn't be DOA when I got it. Thankfully it works, but the bluetooth app to run it on my phone is very glitchy at best.

I don't disagree with you. LC+2.0 should have seamlessly replaced LC+ in both price and engine types. I could see a slight increase for the added electronics to add TMCC but slight is $25. The ability to operate in TMCC / Legacy command would definitely make me have some of them but the quality needs to be there on these. The LC+ berk using the PW style were awesome.

[rogruth]

I agree with Christopher. I love looking at the scale stuff but don't buy it.
I'm still relatively happy with the near scale look of some post war stuff.

[rogruth]

I received the new catalog today. The on-line version is hard for me to see.
So I notice that is NO controller with the LC+ 2.0. We talk all of the time about getting more people in the hobby but then find ways to make it more expensive just to get started. It seems to be starter sets or much higher priced step-up or scale. If I was getting into a hobby now it probably would not be trains.
I see some beautiful stuff in the catalog but not for me. I also see a lot of what seems to be for "collectors" and a lot of fantasy.

[J. S. Bach]

If I was getting into a hobby now it probably would not be trains.

I would be looking at HO or maybe G.

[rogruth]

If I was getting into a hobby now it probably would not be trains.

I would be looking at HO or maybe G.

I looked at HO and N before O3R but my eyes and fingers didn't like them.

[ScaleCraft]

Have all my old H0 stuff...restored....cannot imagine doing that again (in fact, gave all the track and switches away).

Have a LOT of "G". It's big. And heavy. And the affordable stuff is not very well detailed.

Storage. Workspace.

I have 1500 feet outdoors, about 100 switches, and it's a lot of work maintaining in 1:1 Mother Nature, even with battery r/c.

[G3750]

I must admit that the PRR J1 caught my eye, although at $1499 it is totally out of my price range. I continue to look for the TMCC version (c. 2002?) although another I1s Decapod (short tender) is the first priority.

George

[MartyE]

The Tri-Polar (Polar Express Bi-Polar) is really starting to grow on me. I've been getting the Polar Express freight cars as well as the coaches so maybe that can pull the freight.

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[Big Jim]

So, this time they offer the PE Diner with sounds & music which is cool, but, then I don't need another diner to go along with the silent one.
Lionel is pricing themselves out of my business!

A PE "Bi-Polar"! Is that North & South Poles?

[rogruth]

I agree about Lionel prices.
Bi-polar loco

[MartyE]

Pricing in the catalog can be quite different than the street price so I don't let that scare me until I talk to my dealer.

[rogruth]

But think of a person new to the hobby.

[Big Jim]

I could see Lionel doing one of those cool "Made In The USA" paint jobs on a "Bi-Polar". A view of the North Pole on one side and a view of the South Pole on the other.

[Neil]

"There's no middle market."

I disagree. They are now offering separate sale LC locos with remote for under $200. This is a first. So LC is replacing LC+ for the less expensive and less scale end of the loco line.

And all this talk of QC problems is misleading I think. I know too many people who have bought dozens of products in the last few years with no problems to believe that occasional lemons and expected product failures are a systemic problem. If you design new products (and only Lionel is doing that), you are going to have more lemons. MTH hasn't designed a new product, with rare exception, in years, and their sales are sufficiently down I'd guess that they are making less than 10% the number of products as Lionel, so there is the illusion that their product line is trouble free compared with Lionel. It isn't, as any hobby dealer can tell you. It may have fewer lemons than Lionel, but that's because they have fewer new designs.

Lionel catalogs dozens of locos in each catalog. If one is a lemon, that's probably expected if they are introducing new tooling/features. People like to believe what they like to believe. No matter what the facts are. Right now, Lionel is the only game in town for novel products or features, so they attract the most attention for any problems. Shipping damage is frequent. So if Lionel has ten time as many failures as MTH, it's pretty much proportional to the number of products sold (including sets and locos) is my estimate. Those pounding the drum for Lionel's systemic quality problems haven't bought much Lionel or are repeating the claims of those with agendas in most cases. God knows what those agendas are, but they aren't factual or statistically valid samples.

[christopher2035]

"There's no middle market."

I disagree. They are now offering separate sale LC locos with remote for under $200. This is a first. So LC is replacing LC+ for the less expensive and less scale end of the loco line.

And all this talk of QC problems is misleading I think. I know too many people who have bought dozens of products in the last few years with no problems to believe that occasional lemons and expected product failures are a systemic problem. If you design new products (and only Lionel is doing that), you are going to have more lemons. MTH hasn't designed a new product, with rare exception, in years, and their sales are sufficiently down I'd guess that they are making less than 10% the number of products as Lionel, so there is the illusion that their product line is trouble free compared with Lionel. It isn't, as any hobby dealer can tell you. It may have fewer lemons than Lionel, but that's because they have fewer new designs.

Lionel catalogs dozens of locos in each catalog. If one is a lemon, that's probably expected if they are introducing new tooling/features. People like to believe what they like to believe. No matter what the facts are. Right now, Lionel is the only game in town for novel products or features, so they attract the most attention for any problems. Shipping damage is frequent. So if Lionel has ten time as many failures as MTH, it's pretty much proportional to the number of products sold (including sets and locos) is my estimate. Those pounding the drum for Lionel's systemic quality problems haven't bought much Lionel or are repeating the claims of those with agendas in most cases. God knows what those agendas are, but they aren't factual or statistically valid samples.

I think a LOT of the damage we are seeing comes from the shipping end of things. The product isn't bad, but maybe the packaging needs to be looked at. As far as the middle market, I think to offer just LC engines w/o the option to run via a transformer is short sighted. The 'plus' feature IMO, is worth the few extra $ it adds to the cost of the engines. MTH has their share of issues too. They don't get a free pass by any means, but you do bring up a valid point about the production & design volumes of both companies.