Is This For Real?

[Rufus T. Firefly]

The rounded shape of the "flash" makes me think the "flash" was designed into the mold.

Maybe it's there to remind the toy collectors that these are toys......

Maybe that is why the hobby is loosing buyers. Too many think they are NOT toys.

Could be a contributing factor, but it seems someone, somewhere is ready to buy this stuff regardless and as long as the label on the box is Lionel, it's worth buying to them.

However, maybe Lionel is misreading where their marketplace is heading. But, as long as everything sells to someone, somewhere I doubt that they will care or worry.

[rogruth]

I think Rufus made what I was trying to say much clearer.

[Neil]

Maybe it's because I don't much care about prototypical accuracy, but none of these things bother me . I'm looking for models that are attractive and fun to play with. Mold lines and out of scale stanchions or wheels make not a bit of difference to me. Maybe that's why Lionel sales are actually growing at the moment. People are buying sets and toys, not scale models, in the main. Scale modelers are mostly in two rail scales I would bet. Sorry for those who are disappointed.

[rogruth]

Neil,
Most are forecasting doom for Lionel but you say their sales are growing. I hope you are right.
But on what is your statement based?

[Neil]

Lionel staff are stating that last year was the best they've had in 10 years. The catalogs, unlike the late 1960s are getting ever more ambitious and comprehensive (long). The voices of doom and gloom relate to folks who've had particularly awful experiences and extrapolate to the world in general. Even Toyotas can be lemons.

I think there are people for whom the glass is always half empty, or even worse, and the internet gives them voice. I don't doubt that the higher end more complex products are more vulnerable to shipping damage and failed QC. There's one guy on the OGR Forum who keeps saying how trouble free MTH products are, based upon the absence of complaints rather than personal experience. It doesn't occur to him that MTH hasn't done almost any new tooling or innovation in over a decade and this makes their stuff seem more reliable. And the sales are in much smaller numbers than Lionel from what my dealers say behind the curtain. This is the way misinformation and misunderstanding proliferate, due to unreliable commentators, those with agendas and those with a poor understanding of reality.

My approach is to trust my personal experience, the experience of my friends and acquaintances, and the dealers who bear the brunt of any problems. At this moment in time, the forums are dominated by those with agendas, curmudgeons and those who are only happy if the sky is falling. They enjoy the attention, for one thing .

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Maybe it's because I don't much care about prototypical accuracy, but none of these things bother me . I'm looking for models that are attractive and fun to play with. Mold lines and out of scale stanchions or wheels make not a bit of difference to me. Maybe that's why Lionel sales are actually growing at the moment. People are buying sets and toys, not scale models, in the main.

Pretty much what I was describing - the market that you describe is buying and not really caring about all of the above details. As long as that's true, Lionel is not going to care about what remains a small segment of the 3 rail market.

Scale modelers are mostly in two rail scales I would bet. Sorry for those who are disappointed.

Mostly is accurate, but it is not exclusive to two rails. Disappointed? Not at all. Lionel has made 1 car in the past couple of decades that I found useful; Gla hopper car.

[NJPiney]

Lionel staff are stating that last year was the best they've had in 10 years. The catalogs, unlike the late 1960s are getting ever more ambitious and comprehensive (long). The voices of doom and gloom relate to folks who've had particularly awful experiences and extrapolate to the world in general. Even Toyotas can be lemons.

I think there are people for whom the glass is always half empty, or even worse, and the internet gives them voice. I don't doubt that the higher end more complex products are more vulnerable to shipping damage and failed QC. There's one guy on the OGR Forum who keeps saying how trouble free MTH products are, based upon the absence of complaints rather than personal experience. It doesn't occur to him that MTH hasn't done almost any new tooling or innovation in over a decade and this makes their stuff seem more reliable. And the sales are in much smaller numbers than Lionel from what my dealers say behind the curtain. This is the way misinformation and misunderstanding proliferate, due to unreliable commentators, those with agendas and those with a poor understanding of reality.

My approach is to trust my personal experience, the experience of my friends and acquaintances, and the dealers who bear the brunt of any problems. At this moment in time, the forums are dominated by those with agendas, curmudgeons and those who are only happy if the sky is falling. They enjoy the attention, for one thing .

This is all so true and should be read by anyone attempting to come to a conclusion in this hobby by using a limited number of instances. Over 35 years ago, while I was working towards my forestry degree, I took a class in statistics, as required by the degree's curriculum. I thought it would be incredibly boring. I wanted to learn about trees, not numbers. By the time the class had concluded, my eyes had been opened and I looked at things with a whole new perspective, and with acute skepticism. Prior to that, If I was sick and got better after self-prescribing a given medication or herbal remedy, I came to the obvious conclusion that my actions cured me. There was no need for a silly thousand-subject study. If I was wearing a blue jacket when the bus hit me, then blue jackets must be dangerous. A foot of snow just fell, so that proves those climate change guys are nuts. This is the type of linear thinking used by many people when drawing conclusions. It's a lack of understanding of the relevance of a given instance in the bigger picture, often mixed in with a dose of preconceived notion.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

If I was wearing a blue jacket when the bus hit me, then blue jackets must be dangerous.

Rogue buses in NJ are known to track and run over people wearing blue jackets.

[Strummer]

If I was wearing a blue jacket when the bus hit me, then blue jackets must be dangerous.

Rogue buses in NJ are known to track and run over people wearing blue jackets.

Mark in Oregon

[Neil]

If those rogue buses determined to maim and kill blue clad pedestrians exist, it's a good bet it's due to Howard Hitchcock, the woefully unprepared CEO of Lionel. Guaranteed .

[jlong]

Depends on what the engine cost. They range from 250 to 1500. You're not going to get 1500 build quality for 250.

[Strummer]

MSRP is $750.00

Mold parting lines has long been a thing of the past...or so I thought.

Perhaps this is just an isolated case; future releases will tell us, I suppose.

Mark in Oregon

[E7]

My solution to the issue of COSMETIC problems, is to NEVER buy ANYTHING without seeing it first. That means I buy mostly from the secondary market, and it has worked out well for me.

Requires a lot more patience, and is a bit of a Pain in the Arse, but I'm not walking around PO'd for the next couple months after I buy something.

If you can get around the idea of having to have stuff "right away", it will work very well.

Good luck, whatever you do!

Rich

[Roy]

MSRP is $750.00

Mold parting lines has long been a thing of the past...or so I thought.

Perhaps this is just an isolated case; future releases will tell us, I suppose.

Mark in Oregon

Could be a singular mistake. Aster's first gauge one engine, a mogul, had visible bolt heads everywhere. They didn't make that mistake again. But, you have to vote with your wallet. If the next issue has something about it that can't be easily corrected, don't buy it.

[E7]

My solution to the issue of COSMETIC problems, is to NEVER buy ANYTHING without seeing it first. That means I buy mostly from the secondary market, and it has worked out well for me.

Requires a lot more patience, and is a bit of a Pain in the Arse, but I'm not walking around PO'd for the next couple months after I buy something.

If you can get around the idea of having to have stuff "right away", it will work very well.

Good luck, whatever you do!

Rich

Take note that what I am buying is 2 rail, but looking before you buy is effective no matter what the item is. Once the retailer has your dollar, it is generally more difficult to get problems corrected. Ain't no rocket science there folks!