Statements

[healey36]

I wonder what ever happened to the royal family. Wasn't the wife an American, by birth and origin?

I suspect you are thinking of Queen Noor of Jordan, the former queen consort of King Hussein. Lisa Najeeb Halaby, she was a U.S. citizen born in Washington, DC.

[MurphOnMillerAve]

Thank you, Healey.
Murph

[HONDO74]

I'm pretty confident that the "Arab Spring" was largely the product of the neoconservative faction (Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, Bremer, Abrams, et al) of the Bush II administration during and following the 2003 invasion of Iraq. They were the "pro-democracy" bone-heads driving the start of this whole "revolution". That train had left the station long before Obama became president.

Healey, Can't say I agree with that. If it is the case then Obama didn't learn anything from the previous administration and Obama was against us taking action in Iraq. While Obama says the Libya action was UN led, it was the US doing the majority of the bombing to remove Gadaffi. Then he took it a step further by trying to eliminate Assad. Look at the mess that created for Europe with the Muslim invasion. But then Europe was all for it.

And now that Libya is wide open, this is where all the Africans are leaving from for Europe and the Muslims in Libya are using the Africans as slaves again.

And I will add this.John McCain was the biggest hawk and bull in a china shop. If he had his way we would probably be in a war with Russia.....

[healey36]

Hondo, I agree with much of that, but the fact remains that the initiative for nation-building in the middle-east was launched by the neoconservative elements within the Bush II administration (see Iraq 2003). I would not disagree that the Obama admin was hopelessly naive, perhaps criminally, when things all started to unravel, starting in Tunisia in 2010.

As for Europe's problems with the Arabs, read up on Algeria and the French, or Libya/Somalia/Eritrea and the Italians, or the Germans and the Turks, or the Brits in Egypt and Palestine. That far predates any issues raised by the Americans.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Hondo, I agree with much of that, but the fact remains that the initiative for nation-building in the middle-east was launched by the neoconservative elements within the Bush II administration (see Iraq 2003). I would not disagree that the Obama admin was hopelessly naive, perhaps criminally, when things all started to unravel, starting in Tunisia in 2010.

As for Europe's problems with the Arabs, read up on Algeria and the French, or Libya/Somalia/Eritrea and the Italians, or the Germans and the Turks, or the Brits in Egypt and Palestine. That far predates any issues raised by the Americans.

Well stated - there is a lot of very selective memory that overlooks the actions and turns a blind eye on the Bush II administration and as well as the Reagan administration in its dealings with Afghanistan.

[robert.]

Would that mean meddling in other countries' elections or leadership ?

[Roy]

I wonder what ever happened to the royal family. Wasn't the wife an American, by birth and origin?

Also, here is another Statement from the same moment in their history...

That's the crown prince of the deposed house of Pahlavi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reza_Pahlavi,_Crown_Prince_of_Iran What's your point, Murph?

[HONDO74]

Would that mean meddling in other countries' elections or leadership ?

That is something we have been doing for a long time now. What does the NSA and the CIA do. massive organization that spy and meddle in other countries.

Obama got caught spying on Angela Merkel

Barack Obama 'approved tapping Angela Merkel's phone 3 years ago'
President Barack Obama was told about monitoring of German Chancellor in 2010 and allowed it to continue, says German newspaper

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldn ... s-ago.html

[chuck]

Geopolitics is extremely complicated. When you factor in historical precedents it becomes even more so. When you factor in political short sightedness for expediences sake it becomes a nightmare. There are no quick or easy solutions to any of these problems and "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is BS. The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

[HONDO74]

Hondo, I agree with much of that, but the fact remains that the initiative for nation-building in the middle-east was launched by the neoconservative elements within the Bush II administration (see Iraq 2003). I would not disagree that the Obama admin was hopelessly naive, perhaps criminally, when things all started to unravel, starting in Tunisia in 2010.

As for Europe's problems with the Arabs, read up on Algeria and the French, or Libya/Somalia/Eritrea and the Italians, or the Germans and the Turks, or the Brits in Egypt and Palestine. That far predates any issues raised by the Americans.

Healey
I agree. The Bush administration had the mis-guided belief that they could turn Iraq into a democracy. Not going to happen, never going to happen. These middle east countries are controlled by Islam. A democracy and Islam are in total conflict.

Looking back on it I believe the Republicans had plenty of help from the Democrats that wanted to see Saddam eliminated.

We Americans have always lived under a republic and what we call democracy. We don't know any better. We think the rest of the world should be the same. That is why I keep saying we need to leave the rest of the world alone and let them solve their own problems.

[Mitch]

That is something we have been doing for a long time now. What does the NSA and the CIA do. massive organization that spy and meddle in other countries.

Obama got caught spying on Angela Merkel

Barack Obama 'approved tapping Angela Merkel's phone 3 years ago'
President Barack Obama was told about monitoring of German Chancellor in 2010 and allowed it to continue, says German newspaper

HONDO, you forgot to mention the $500 million tax payer dollars that Obama funneled to the last recent opponent of Netanyahu in Israel in an attempt to unseat Ben, all hush/hush, very secret! That's what Obama thought of our best ally in the Mideast. Yet he had no problem shipping $140 billion in cash (in the dark of night) on two airplanes to Iran, the top exporter of terrorism in the world.

[MurphOnMillerAve]

I wonder what ever happened to the royal family. Wasn't the wife an American, by birth and origin?

Also, here is another Statement from the same moment in their history...

That's the crown prince of the deposed house of Pahlavi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reza_Pahlavi,_Crown_Prince_of_Iran What's your point, Murph?

My point was to see what my fellow forumites here on MTJ felt about seeing him, as part of the previous posting of the royal family. Do you see any Statement by him in that photo of him alone?

Their taking of that photo of Reza was not serendipitous, I would venture to say, but deliberate. IMO

Thank you, so much, for posting that Link to Reza. His photo on that Wikipedia page of him in 1973 speaks the same Statement, to me.

[healey36]

HONDO, you forgot to mention the $500 million tax payer dollars that Obama funneled to the last recent opponent of Netanyahu in Israel in an attempt to unseat Ben, all hush/hush, very secret! That's what Obama thought of our best ally in the Mideast.

Mitch, I remember that story. I think, and this doesn't make it right, it was around $350,000, not $500,000,000. Obama and ol' Bi Bi didn't quite see eye-to-eye, lol...

[Rufus T. Firefly]

HONDO, you forgot to mention the $500 million tax payer dollars that Obama funneled to the last recent opponent of Netanyahu in Israel in an attempt to unseat Ben, all hush/hush, very secret! That's what Obama thought of our best ally in the Mideast.

Mitch, I remember that story. I think, and this doesn't make it right, it was around $350,000, not $500,000,000. Obama and ol' Bi Bi didn't quite see eye-to-eye, lol...

$350,000, not $500,000,000.........the usual exaggeration of reality......and out best ally there could be a lot better.

[HONDO74]

and out best ally there could be a lot better.

Well at least they are not yelling death to America.

The only ones I see in that could be our friends are the Kurds. But then the others over there want to exterminate them.

Maybe if we just leave all of them alone they will exterminate each other. Kind of like the gang banger's in Chiraq.