NATO

[Rufus T. Firefly]

.................Europe is in the process of banning the internal combustion engine.

That would be one possible reality, and might make an interesting SF story.

Also the elimination of coal fired power plants.

Coal is expensive, costly to transport, inefficient, and natural gas beats it such that plants in the US converted and continue to convert to it for generating electricity, etc.

[HONDO74]

.................Europe is in the process of banning the internal combustion engine.

That would be one possible reality, and might make an interesting SF story.

Also the elimination of coal fired power plants.

Coal is expensive, costly to transport, inefficient, and natural gas beats it such that plants in the US converted and continue to convert to it for generating electricity, etc.

Rufus, I comprehend what you are saying. Now the topic is does the burning of fossil fuel cause global warming and is it the cause of what's happening. What is your opinion ???

[robert.]

I would be out of luck if they ban internal combustion engines. I’m cheap and all my cars are 20 years old. Average cost of $2,500. I don’t think you can get a battery electric that cheap.
Global warming is caused by many things. There is no cold. It’s the lack of energy. Energy is all around us. Sun ,automobiles people and animals. Maybe we can block out the sun for a few months. We are head on a course planned by nature. It can only be detoured for a short time. Ultimately we will warm up. Without a natural disaster. There is no “cool down” in sight.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

.................Europe is in the process of banning the internal combustion engine.

That would be one possible reality, and might make an interesting SF story.

Also the elimination of coal fired power plants.

Coal is expensive, costly to transport, inefficient, and natural gas beats it such that plants in the US converted and continue to convert to it for generating electricity, etc.

Rufus, I comprehend what you are saying. Now the topic is does the burning of fossil fuel cause global warming and is it the cause of what's happening. What is your opinion ???

Not by itself, but natural gas is a fossil fuel and it's very clean; probably just as clean as you can get. Burning coal - just look at pictures of the air over Chinese cities - those clouds trap heat. Contributes. Burning gasoline - not very efficient process in an internal combustion engine - gotten better over the past 40 years, but lots of improvement possible.... Contributes. If it were clean, that catalytic converter wouldn't be there to help make what you breath better. Air quality in the US improved significantly. Might cost more, but health care costs related to respiratory disease........

[Rufus T. Firefly]

There is no “cool down” in sight.

Couple of billion years from now the sun will go through a red giant expansion and thereafter cool back down to probably a brown dwarf; Eeath won't survive, but there will be drinks available at Milliways.

[MurphOnMillerAve]

…. natural gas is a fossil fuel and it's very clean; probably just as clean as you can get. Burning coal - just look at pictures of the air over Chinese cities - those clouds trap heat. Contributes. Burning gasoline - not very efficient process in an internal combustion engine - gotten better over the past 40 years, but lots of improvement possible.... Contributes. If it were clean, that catalytic converter wouldn't be there to help make what you breath better. Air quality in the US improved significantly. Might cost more, but health care costs related to respiratory disease........

Very true. Just look at these two photos from the height of steel-mill days in downtown Pittsburgh. I remember them well, when you had to carefully select when you hung-out the laundry on clothes-lines to dry. If you hung-out wet wash on a day the mills were doing certain procedures and filling the air with particles and smoke, you had to re-do your laundry. Same thing went for washing a car - on mill-effluence days, particles rained down on the car and would scratch it if you rubbed down on it with a sponge to wash it. We couldn't even ride our bikes anytime we wanted due to sharp particles in the air on certain days due to the mills filling the air - everywhere - with their effluence from their smokestacks.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Mmmmm..............the good old days. Hack, hack, your lungs right out of your body.......

[Mitch]

Pittsburgh was the steel capital of the world. Hell, there was a mill on every corner and along both banks of both rivers. Mills everywhere. United States Steel, J & L, Wheeling-Pittsburgh. It was called the "Smoky City". You don't have to worry about that now. All but one of the mills are gone now. (Along with thousands of good payin' jobs).

[HONDO74]

Los Angeles was the same way all created by millions of automobiles and trucks.

[rogruth]

I vouch for what Murph says. My hometown in the upper Ohio Valley was about 60 miles from Pittsburgh. It did not have the concentration of steel mills at Pittsburgh but from my town to Steubenville there were seven mills plus related industries.You could wash your car at 10 AM and at 12N it would need washed again. You could just look out and see the particles falling. There were also chemical plants, coal mines and many factories of various types.
People painted their houses white, I never understood why. The next year they would have a grey house and the next the paint would be peeling off.
There was also a smell associated with this that never went away. I think the smell is still there even though the mines and mills are closed.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

All but one of the mills are gone now. (Along with thousands of good payin' jobs).

Their refusal to modernize and to invest in doing so contributed greatly to their demise.

Los Angeles was the same way all created by millions of automobiles and trucks.

Was is the operant word -- clear air is sort of desirable and also achievable. When you can actually see the particulates in the air, know that you are breathing them........ For all of the complaints about regulations, far too many people have forgotten just how bad the air quality was in too many parts of this country.

[rogruth]

I was offered jobs in my home area many times but had no desire to live with those conditions.

[rex desilets]

<snip>

Los Angeles was the same way all created by millions of automobiles and trucks.

Was is the operant word -- clear air is sort of desirable and also achievable. When you can actually see the particulates in the air, know that you are breathing them........ For all of the complaints about regulations, far too many people have forgotten just how bad the air quality was in too many parts of this country.

I have not forgotten. Moved to So Cal in 1977. Remember frequent first stage smog alerts. Drove to Downey once and got a sore throat from the stench. Onlt drove to Pasadena on the few good days.
Having said that, the AQMD is now laboring at gnats, having reached the tail of the cost-benefit curve.

[Roy]

...the AQMD is now laboring at gnats, having reached the tail of the cost-benefit curve.

The AQMD did a great job, in cleaning up L.A.'s air. But now, we're breathing smog from China.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Having said that, the AQMD is now laboring at gnats, having reached the tail of the cost-benefit curve.

Well, we could just stop and let it all come back for your children's children to be plagued with so that it becomes an issue for their children's health.