New Lionel Catalog & Lionel's Quality

[christopher2035]

Not sure why the folks at Lionel don't have a better grasp of what's going on in China. But in the case of the Alco set I referenced earlier, that's a design issue, as far as the couplers go. If you go on Amazon & read reviews of LC sets, there are a ton of negative ones. For a lot of these people this may be their first taste of Lionel & model trains & it's a bad taste. The LC sets are cheap junk.

[Roy]

Anyone notice they've jumped back into HO? New track system and BlueTooth/DCC support.

Lionel has such a record of bailing on HO, I don't know why anyone would invest in it. They've come up with some neat stuff over the years, like the HO horn/whistle using a 2 position E-unit and fast-acting switch. I also like the HO milk car with it's revolver mechanism.

[healey36]

Prices are most likely driven by the rapidly increasing cost of manufacturing stuff in PRC together with the weakening dollar. While a weak dollar drives up US exports it has the opposite effect on imports.

Lionel may be "cheapening" the line in an effort to offset some of the rising cost of offshore production. Regardless, this catalog looks price-wise like something Lionel would have trotted out in the early days of the Kughn administration.

[G3750]

Anyone notice they've jumped back into HO? New track system and BlueTooth/DCC support.

Lionel has such a record of bailing on HO, I don't know why anyone would invest in it. They've come up with some neat stuff over the years, like the HO horn/whistle using a 2 position E-unit and fast-acting switch. I also like the HO milk car with it's revolver mechanism.

You're right. At best, I am a casual observer and to me it seems that Lionel has been in and out of HO at least 3 times in the past 20+ years.

George

[G3750]

Regardless, this catalog looks price-wise like something Lionel would have trotted out in the early days of the Kughn administration.

Ah yes, the "we're Lionel and you're not" mentality.

George

[Neil]

I have continued to have good luck with Lionel products. That said, this reflects perhaps five items per year for the last 5-10 years. Lionchief + locos (about six) and rolling stock, the universal remote, some command Fastrack switches, some 180 watt Powerhouses. No problems whatever with about 40-50 items. As for the high end stuff, they are making <1000 of many of these locos, so the costs of overhead (tooling, design, etc.) per item have sky rocketed, as has transportation, labor in China. I don't worry about what I cannot control, and I don't feel an enormous passion for $1500 +, or even $1000 plus locos.

I think the hobby has contracted substantially so overhead per product produced is unfortunately reflected in the low volumes and much higher prices per item. The main market is baby boomers who are aging, finding themselves on fixed incomes, and more importantly, have accumulated a ton of trains over the last 20-25 years if my experience is typical. Not much that I need or want, and even with lots of space, not much desire to accumulate more.

I think the high end will remain the high end and get smaller and smaller until runs consist of perhaps a hundred to a few hundred locos at most.

Set sales will continue to be stable or grow, and frankly, my experience with LionChief is very different. Clearly not robust, but entirely reliable overall. The Amazon reviews reflect the fact that these products require reading the directions and some facility with assembly, which are skills not much in evidence these days. And that sales are in the tens of thousands, so a 20-30% complaint rate on several hundred reviews is not necessarily indicative of a systematic problem with quality. A lot of user error, shipping damage and a moderately fragile product. LionChief is about 1/3 the cost of an MTH set, and pretty much bulletproof if not damaged in shipping or user error in my experience. Dealers I've talked with agree with those evaluations. Not the premier sets of the 1950s, for sure, but good enough to start with, and priced so the average family could consider one for under the tree, unlike the MTH high ends sets. Time will tell who is right about that.

Practically speaking, I might order a LionChief Plus loco and a few freight cars, to be determined. Maybe I'll spring for some NYC passenger cars. But as a consumer, I'm largely done for locomotives and rolling stock. An embarassment of riches already present in my basement .

[Neil]

"Wish LionScale was available in less than 6 packs."

Chuck, all of these are available individually as well, at least at Charles Ro. I've bought a couple.

[rogruth]

What is the problem with the coupler that has been mentioned so often above?

I don't have a lot of stuff and don't have room for more so I won't be buying
anything. I like a lot of what I see but I am not likely to spend @ $90.00 for
a piece of rolling stock. I am happy with $20.00 Menards cars or used older
Lionel stuff.

[chuck]

Chuck, all of these are available individually as well, at least at Charles Ro. I've bought a couple.

Thanks, I'll have to check it out.

[rogruth]

Like Niel, I have had very good "new" products from Lionel.
Maybe it has all changed as I have not bought anything new
in the past two years. But I have read for many years about
the poor quality of Lionel products and that almost nothing
works "out of the box". Maybe I have been lucky as everything
from Lionel has worked "out of the box" for me.
What I see looks very nice and there is a lot of stuff I would
like to have but I will not buy it for two reasons, I don't have
room for it and I can't afford it.

[jlong]

If anything's cheesy in high end Lionel, it's the electronics. Garbage compared to the motors and gear trains which are near bullet proof and silky smooth. Will be interesting to see where Lionel hybrid brass goes. The prices are what you would expect to pay for Overland HO brass. Ditch the electronics, drop the price and Lionel might be on to something with brass collectors who do HO but want to dabble in O scale with floor track.

[christopher2035]

What is the problem with the coupler that has been mentioned so often above?

I don't have a lot of stuff and don't have room for more so I won't be buying
anything. I like a lot of what I see but I am not likely to spend @ $90.00 for
a piece of rolling stock. I am happy with $20.00 Menards cars or used older
Lionel stuff.

When Lionel decided to replace the pullmor motor w/ a can motor, it raised the frame off the truck slightly. The coupler hits the pilot bar, which lifts it up & doesn't sit on the same level as the cars. Bad design

[rogruth]

Christopher,
Thank you.
I assume you have seen this from your comment.
There are no hobby shops in my area that would have this in stock.

[G3750]

If anything's cheesy in high end Lionel, it's the electronics. Garbage compared to the motors and gear trains which are near bullet proof and silky smooth. Will be interesting to see where Lionel hybrid brass goes. The prices are what you would expect to pay for Overland HO brass. Ditch the electronics, drop the price and Lionel might be on to something with brass collectors who do HO but want to dabble in O scale with floor track.

If that's an issue for Lionel, then it's true in spades for MTH. From my somewhat dated experience, they've managed to combine cheesy design aspects with poor manufacturing processes - a true winning combination.

[christopher2035]

Just b/c I'm going off on Lionel in this post, doesn't mean MTH is immune from these issues either. I think MTH's stuff, the Railking line for sure, is made a bit better than Lionel's. But as John said, the boards seem to be the week point on both importers lines