New Lionel Catalog & Lionel's Quality

[christopher2035]

What do you guys think?

I'm finding myself for the first time, not really wanting anything. I feel the prices have gotten way out of hand. Yes, all the gizmos (when they work) are nice, but the prices are steep, even with a % off the MSRP. The traditional side doesn't excite me either. Lot's of LC stuff, which from what I have seen firsthand, is cheap crap. Still not sold on the remote only operation for these things. The only thing I would consider would be the green Alco PW style passenger set, but the issues with the couplers on the engines & wrong bulbs in the cars makes me say I'll pass.

Lionel has a serious quality control issue on their hands. I feel like they have lost their way under this new management team.

[G3750]

Chris,

I can't speak to the quality issues. But I just saw this yesterday:

Lionel 6-85344 - Lionel Scale RPO Passenger Car - Pennsylvania 5265 for $159.99

I'm sorry, but that's just NUTS.

That is 2x what these sold for on the street just a few short years ago.

George

[LS1Heli]

I reviewed the 2018 catalog yesterday. So obvious management has changed.

I too was looking at the Green 1948 Alco set....but they can't even get the coupler correct....on one of their signature engines! Bulbs are messed up as well. Advertised as LEDs, not true. Lastly, the engine windows are frosted. You have to ask yourself, WTF are they thinking?

After the General Set with the messed up colors and sub-par materials, I am done.

Now I pose the question.....with what we are seeing today, was MPC really that bad?

[jlong]

Chris,

I can't speak to the quality issues. But I just saw this yesterday:

Lionel 6-85344 - Lionel Scale RPO Passenger Car - Pennsylvania 5265 for $159.99

I'm sorry, but that's just NUTS.

That is 2x what these sold for on the street just a few short years ago.

George

I thought you would be all over the Pennsy Coal Hauler set.

[jlong]

Compared to HO with sounds and DCC, Lionel's internal wiring and board mounting system is a tangle rat's nest. No organization whatsover. Wire nuts, zip ties, tape pads, good grief. You would think Ed Green wired them.

[G3750]

Chris,

I can't speak to the quality issues. But I just saw this yesterday:

Lionel 6-85344 - Lionel Scale RPO Passenger Car - Pennsylvania 5265 for $159.99

I'm sorry, but that's just NUTS.

That is 2x what these sold for on the street just a few short years ago.

George

I thought you would be all over the Pennsy Coal Hauler set.

The H-10? Yeah, a consolidation would be nice. However, $ is tight and the true engine for the Panhandle would be the Decapod.

[CWBurfle]

Now I pose the question.....with what we are seeing today, was MPC really that bad?

MPC made an ALCO with opaque, white windows.
It might not be that common. Don't recall seeing one in the flesh.

[jlong]

The H-10? Yeah, a consolidation would be nice. However, $ is tight and the true engine for the Panhandle would be the Decapod.

Looking at the list prices on everything else in the catalog, the 1100 list price kind of surprised me. I was expecting to see 1800. Not to say 1100 is a bargain.

[healey36]

Chris,

I can't speak to the quality issues. But I just saw this yesterday:

Lionel 6-85344 - Lionel Scale RPO Passenger Car - Pennsylvania 5265 for $159.99

I'm sorry, but that's just NUTS.

That is 2x what these sold for on the street just a few short years ago.

George

I thought you would be all over the Pennsy Coal Hauler set.

The H-10? Yeah, a consolidation would be nice. However, $ is tight and the true engine for the Panhandle would be the Decapod.

Is there a 3-rail model of the I-1s out there? That would be worth having.

[christopher2035]

I reviewed the 2018 catalog yesterday. So obvious management has changed.

I too was looking at the Green 1948 Alco set....but they can't even get the coupler correct....on one of their signature engines! Bulbs are messed up as well. Advertised as LEDs, not true. Lastly, the engine windows are frosted. You have to ask yourself, WTF are they thinking?

After the General Set with the messed up colors and sub-par materials, I am done.

Now I pose the question.....with what we are seeing today, was MPC really that bad?

Yeah I wanted that green Alco set as well, but after the issues you listed, I said I'll pass. $500 for a set & you have all these issues??? Folks on 'the other forum' suggest grinding this & that. I'm sorry, $500 - I want to take it out of the box & have it work the first time. I'm glad I passed on the General too. We had thought about it, but after seeing it, again, no thx. The western union one I bought for my son is crap. Very cheaply made & has been back to Lionel 3 times. I'll take MPC & LTI over any of this stuff any day.

[christopher2035]

Now I pose the question.....with what we are seeing today, was MPC really that bad?

MPC made an ALCO with opaque, white windows.
It might not be that common. Don't recall seeing one in the flesh.

It was a blue Santa Fe made for JC Penny. My Uncle has it. They weren't that common. Let's not forget the PRR F3 from 79 w/ the frosted windows as well.

[chuck]

Anyone notice they've jumped back into HO? New track system and BlueTooth/DCC support.

New Dementor's coach for the HE set looks better and now has sounds.

Wish LionScale was available in less than 6 packs.

Re MPC. Early stuff had QC issues because the new engineering staff didn't understand why stuff was done the way it was in PW. The old/original Lionel staff was rather cliquish and didn't document why they did things (other than that's what works). New team was trying to make things better and eventually did, it just took some time. There is a separate repair manual for MPC era trains

Greenberg's Operating & Repair Manual: Lionel-Fundimensions Trains, 1970-1978

Look/feel of the older Greenberg PW manual but specific to MPC era

[G3750]

I thought you would be all over the Pennsy Coal Hauler set.

The H-10? Yeah, a consolidation would be nice. However, $ is tight and the true engine for the Panhandle would be the Decapod.

Is there a 3-rail model of the I-1s out there? That would be worth having.

3rd Rail has both a long tender and a short tender I1s. They come up for bid on eBay every so often for reasonable money. They would need converted to TMCC - probably ERR boards. MTH made one, but it would have to be gutted. I actually had one of those on order when I gave up on DCS. I cancelled it.

Pretty sure that if Lionel comes out with a new version of an I1s it will cost north of $1200.

In any case, my focus is on more basic construction issues and there really isn't money available for it.

George

[christopher2035]

Anyone notice they've jumped back into HO? New track system and BlueTooth/DCC support.

New Dementor's coach for the HE set looks better and now has sounds.

Wish LionScale was available in less than 6 packs.

Re MPC. Early stuff had QC issues because the new engineering staff didn't understand why stuff was done the way it was in PW. The old/original Lionel staff was rather cliquish and didn't document why they did things (other than that's what works). New team was trying to make things better and eventually did, it just took some time. There is a separate repair manual for MPC era trains

Greenberg's Operating & Repair Manual: Lionel-Fundimensions Trains, 1970-1978

Look/feel of the older Greenberg PW manual but specific to MPC era

No doubt MPC had QC issues in the early days. I'd say by the later half of the 70's onward, they were able to get a handle on it & produce a pretty decent product. What's going on today, I don't even know where to start

[chuck]

What's going on today, I don't even know where to start

There are some elements of similarity. The people making the trains in China have no idea what they are producing, it's a "thing". That's why Scott Mann spends considerable time over seas making sure his contractors get it right. Lionel was doing this for a while, but .............

The issue with the electronics may settle out as they push bluetooth tech for casual users and only the dedicated train heads will want/need the more elaborate dedicated systems (e.g. Legacy/DCS). DCC may be in the same situation in a couple of years. If you only have one or two trains you just use your phone/tablet to run them.