Never question a Drunk!

[Rufus T. Firefly]

but you don't know the Pope??

And just why would I want to know who the pope is? He sort of fits in that list anyway.

He actually has a rather interesting past that has gotten glossed over a bit......there was a documentary about his early years in Argentina that I caught one late evening....

[webenda]

Pope Francis, birth name Jorge Mario Bergoglio (pronounced ber-GOAL-io), was a nightclub bouncer in Buenos Aires before becoming an ordained Catholic priest in the Jesuit/Ignatian order. I think he rocks for sticking to Jesuit principles. As Pope Frances, for example, he is known for favoring simpler vestments void of ornamentation, including refusing the traditional papal mozzetta cape upon his election, choosing silver instead of gold for his piscatory ring, and keeping the same pectoral cross he had as Cardinal.

His critics think he is a dangerous liberal for rocking the boat with change. They twist his good deeds into vile deeds. His critics have many followers who believe and pass on every vile lie about the Pope.

His critics bring up old lies from his past. In 2005 Bergoglio was formally accused by an Argentine lawyer in a lawsuit of being complicit in the military’s kidnapping of two Jesuit priests whose anti-government views he considered dangerously unorthodox. Bergoglio testified that he feared for the priests' safety and had tried to change their work prior to their arrest; however, contrary to reports (still being repeated in 2016) he never tried to throw them out of the Jesuit order. Accused of secretly meeting with military heads and "giving up" the priests, Bergoglio testified he had indeed met secretly with Gen. Jorge Videla, the former head of the military junta, and Adm. Emilio Massera, the commander of the navy, after the kidnaping, to ask for the release of the priests. Bergoglio's authorized biographer, Sergio Rubin, writes, "Bergoglio's intercession with dictator Jorge Rafael Videla on their behalf may have saved their lives."

There are many, many more truths twisted into lies about the Pope. There are also many truths told truly, with the commentator disagreeing with the Pope's comment or action.

I don't think all the critics understand the principle of "Papal Infallibility." If the Pope teaches the word of Jesus as church doctrine, it is infallible. The Pope is just the messenger; the critics are actually disagreeing with Jesus over church doctrine.

It may seem I got a little off subject (Bergoglio's Argentine past) bringing up Papal Infallibility but I think not. His past is now a world wide topic along with what he does today because he is now Pope.

References:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis#Dirty_War
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/14/world ... .html?_r=0
http://www.loyolapress.com/the-rosary-a ... -kelly.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope
http://jesuits.org/spirituality?PAGE=DTN-20130520125429
http://www.religious-vocation.com/diffe ... t5wnZwrKUk
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/papal-infallibility

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Wayne,

There are 2 sides to every story and there are a lot of stories of his past - I suspect reality is as per usual somewhere in between the two extremes.

[webenda]

Wayne,

There are 2 sides to every story and there are a lot of stories of his past - I suspect reality is as per usual somewhere in between the two extremes.

That "in between" doctrine is my usual stand on things, even those I was a witness to. My own biases influence the way I see things. Still, the obvious lies being repeated over and over about Father Bergoglio are abhorrent to me.

What ever his past, I am hoping, as Pope Francis, he will prove to be a shining light in a sea of Vatican darkness. He has already purged the Vatican Bank of corrupt bishops.

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/p ... /37980.htm

[Rufus T. Firefly]

What ever his past, I am hoping, as Pope Francis, he will prove to be a shining light in a sea of Vatican darkness. He has already purged the Vatican Bank of corrupt bishops.

Agreed!!! I suspect however that he has only scratched the surface of a very entrenched organization. I just hope that he lasts long enough that some of his good works do not get reversed.........

[MurphOnMillerAve]

What ever his past, I am hoping, as Pope Francis, he will prove to be a shining light in a sea of Vatican darkness. He has already purged the Vatican Bank of corrupt bishops.

Agreed!!! I suspect however that he has only scratched the surface of a very entrenched organization. I just hope that he lasts long enough that some of his good works do not get reversed.........

Such conversations revive my unease when I wonder what really happened to Pope John Paul l (Albino Luciani).

[webenda]

Such conversations revive my unease when I wonder what really happened to Pope John Paul l (Albino Luciani).

Unease because John Paul I (Albino Luciani) might have planned to do the same thing to the Vatican Bank that Pope Francis has already done but [Luciani] died 33 days into his papacy before getting a chance?

Pope John Paul I's "SIX POINT PLAN" to reform the church did not mention the bank, but he certainly had the moral strength to do such a thing. When two of Cardinal Luciani's priests were caught embezzling church funds, Luciani suspended the priests and wrote an open letter to the diocese explaining the situation, frankly acknowledging that "two of my priests have done wrong." While voicing compassion, he let a criminal investigation and prosecution run its course. He also sold off property owned by the diocese and also requested additional help from parishioners in order to balance the books.

That he had a heart attack (no autopsy, his doctors opinion) 33 days into his papacy certainly brought conspiracy fanatics out of their hiding places, didn't it?

[MurphOnMillerAve]

Such conversations revive my unease when I wonder what really happened to Pope John Paul l (Albino Luciani).

Unease because John Paul I (Albino Luciani) might have planned to do the same thing to the Vatican Bank that Pope Francis has already done and then died 33 days into his papacy? ...

That he had a heart attack (no autopsy, his doctors opinion) 33 days into his papacy certainly brought conspiracy fanatics out of their hiding places, didn't it?

Well, I do not know if I would or should be considered a "conspiracy fanatic" emerging from a "hiding place," but I sure did miss him the moment he was gone. He seemed so vibrant, cheerful, and warm. Whether he was "about" as much as writers have suggested he was "about to do" or not, I have no clue. Perhaps, The Holy Spirit had him in The Plan as a preface for Cardinal Karol Wojtyla becoming John Paul ll, which has crossed my mind. I wish somebody had pressed JPll for more, beyond the initial answer he gave, about why he chose that particular name .

However, I am presently more concerned about the present and future than I am about that past. I have a bad feeling concerning the Isis devils and Pope Francis and St. Peter's basilica itself. They are planning something, no doubt, and are not going to go away, ever. They destroyed ancient statues of the Buddha, for no good reason, and they have destroyed an ancient city, for no good reason, adequately demonstrating their contempt for anybody else's view than their own, even about something as treasured and defenseless as art, not to mention the lives of journalists, priests, and bishops, and civilians (300,000+ ordered out of Iraq overnight,) on and on and on.

[webenda]

Well, I do not know if I would or should be considered a "conspiracy fanatic" emerging from a "hiding place,"

I was not thinking of you murph, but of all the wild theories that put doubt in our minds to discredit the Vatican's report of a heart attack. Now, years later, with reports from those who were there and from his relatives, it seems true that he died of some kind of natural cause.

[rogruth]

In the dark ages of my undergraduate college years I had a "World Religions" class from a Baptist minister who was also an English teacher.
Besides this class he also taught "The Bible as Literature". These were the only classes on campus that concerned religion in any way. At that
time there were @ 600 students at the college. The Science and the English departments each had a higher percentages of Doctoral holders
than other departments. Most departments were headed by a Doctor and that may have been the only one in that department. Everybody
knew everybody. This was 1952 -1956.
I had always been interested in religion although I would probably not be considered to be be a very religious person.
Dr. Banks was the teacher for the World Religions class. Enough detail other than to point out that in the 1930s he had spent a bit of time
in what were sometimes referred to as the Arabian countries. He wanted to stay when WW II started, he thought he could be of use there,
but was sent home. He then enlisted, refused-too old, so he became a chaplain. I point these things out to show his experience and
knowledge in the field and area of the world. When we studied the Muslim religion he pointed out that there are factions of that religion
that probably would lead to many changes in the world as we know it and they would be very violent. He also said that almost every religion
had seen periods like that but the Muslims were more persistent than others. He told us that they had been fighting all other religions
for @ 1200 years non stop.
I wish he had been wrong.

[rogruth]

WOW! We sure took a detour on this thread.
Wonder if we can get back on the main line?

[E7]

WOW! We sure took a detour on this thread.
Wonder if we can get back on the main line?

You Bet:

Perfect One Liners For An Election Year



If God wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates.

~Jay Leno~


The problem with political jokes is they get elected.

~Henry Cate, VII~


We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office

~Aesop~


If we got one-tenth of what was promised to us in these State of the Union speeches, there wouldn't be any inducement to go to heaven.

~Will Rogers~


Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build a bridge even where there is no river.

~Nikita Khrushchev~


When I was a boy I was told that anybody could become President; I'm beginning to believe it.

~Clarence Darrow~


Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel.

~John Quinton~


Why pay money to have your family tree traced; go into politics and your opponents will do it for you.

~Author unknown~


Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other.

~Oscar Ameringer~


I offer my opponents a bargain: if they will stop telling lies about us, I will stop telling the truth about them.

~Adlai Stevenson, 1952~


A politician is a fellow who will lay down your life for his country.

~ Tex Guinan~


I have come to the conclusion that politics is too serious a matter to be left to the politicians.

~Charles de Gaulle~


Instead of giving a politician the keys to the city, it might be better to change the locks.

~Doug Larson~


There ought to be one day -- just one -- when there is open season on Congressmen.

~Will Rogers

[rogruth]

All still true.

[robert.]

0AA9_zpsfxdbfh6j.jpg

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Or does that simply fall under, "Never Underestimate the Stupidity of the Human Race"?