What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

[G3750]

I like it. Staging areas are a necessary evil in model railroading unless you have pole barn or abandoned movie theater to put in real yards.

Make sure you have enough clearance on that back track (backside of the double crossover). It looks pretty tight and you don't want to derail or scrape equipment/walls when making the turns into/out of that crossover.

Thanks! Yes, I think a staging yard is a much better choice than the Hidden Storage Yard (under the west end of Panhandle 1.0) I had previously. The 2 westernmost tracks will hold through trains while the double crossover and its tracks can store motive power. Making up of steel-related trains will take place in the Weirton Steel Yard. Staging won't be a high capacity area, but it beats going to a lower level. This is my initial thinking. We'll see how it really plays out in practice.

George

[G3750]

Updated 8/26/2017:

I was just about to pull the trigger on the first order of lumber (for the Staging Area) when I thought: Hey, let's measure the real size of the tables within the room just one more time. Well, that was eye-opening!

There's nothing quite like seeing the dimensions of the layout as it will sit in the room. The old saying is true: When the map and the terrain differ, believe the terrain!

You may recall that earlier in this thread I shortened the depth of the layout. That bought me some space on the plan. But it was only when I laid it out on the floor that I realized it just wasn't enough aisle space. Working with that large expanse of table-top and minimal aisle space would have created a claustrophobic situation.

So it was back to the drawing board. Here are the changes I've made or identified:

• The Staging Area went from 11' to 10' deep. All sidings that run North to South were shortened accordingly.
• Aisle Section 1 shrinks to 30" wide.
• The curve (east of Aisle Section 2) west of Weirton Junction is now about 2' longer and flatter (no straight section at the apex of the curve). This has the effect of making the City of Weirton a bit longer. The position of the streets of Weirton will have to be adjusted.
• Some adjustment in the position and size of the steel mill buildings will be required. I expect that the Strip Steel building will be compressed along its width. Minor adjustments to track location will be needed.
• The depth of the Steubenville side of the layout has been compressed as well. It's lost about a foot. I'm thinking about ditching the coal mine and replacing it with some industries. There was a Federal cardboard company along the river, if I recall correctly.

I would post the track plan, but the board has reached it quota.

George

[rogruth]

Georg
Although a lot of coal went through Steubenville, I don't recall any coal mine in the immediate area ( at least from 1940 onward).
Of course I could be wrong. Coal went north from the Powhattan/Captina Creek, Dilles Bottom and the Wegee Creek areas along
the Ohio River. Coal would also move north on the West Virginia side of the river from the Wheeling area and from interchange
with the B&O and the W&LE at Wheeling.

[G3750]

Georg
Although a lot of coal went through Steubenville, I don't recall any coal mine in the immediate area ( at least from 1940 onward).
Of course I could be wrong. Coal went north from the Powhattan/Captina Creek, Dilles Bottom and the Wegee Creek areas along
the Ohio River. Coal would also move north on the West Virginia side of the river from the Wheeling area and from interchange
with the B&O and the W&LE at Wheeling.

I think you're right, Roger.

And after some more thought, I am going to accurately lay out the dimensions of the room (to the inch), redraw the layout within it, and make sure I'm not painting myself into a corner. This is the time to do that. Hopefully, the board's quota will be fixed by then and I can post the revised plan.

George

[Rufus T. Firefly]

.......... I am going to accurately lay out the dimensions of the room (to the inch), redraw the layout within it, and make sure I'm not painting myself into a corner.

This is a good idea, but do consider packing a cheese sandwich and a bottle of water for yourself if you are going to paint yourself into a corner.

[Seaboard Air Line Fan]

True story...

My wife and I were in Jackson MS years ago and the wrestling folks were in town. We met some friends at the local Ramada Inn for drinks and as we were making our way thru the crowd at the bar my wife bumps into this guy...scared her to death when he grunted at her!

Turned out it was The Animal himself

I looked down at his hand and saw a ring he had on, looked like a half dollar coin could have fit inside. Back on topic.

I'm slowly getting back around to planning my 12x30 layout rebuild/expansion, so I'll be rereading all these posts.

[G3750]

True story...

My wife and I were in Jackson MS years ago and the wrestling folks were in town. We met some friends at the local Ramada Inn for drinks and as we were making our way thru the crowd at the bar my wife bumps into this guy...scared her to death when he grunted at her!

Turned out it was The Animal himself

I looked down at his hand and saw a ring he had on, looked like a half dollar coin could have fit inside. Back on topic.

It was all an act. The guy coached real wrestling at the high school level. I believe he was also an NCAA wrestling champion.

I'm slowly getting back around to planning my 12x30 layout rebuild/expansion, so I'll be rereading all these posts.

Cool. Keep us informed as to your progress. Mine is painfully slow. I am still organizing this workshop, but it seems to be taking forever!

George

[G3750]

Updated 5/29/2017:

After much thought and measurement, I have constructed a detailed room plan and within in it, a detailed track plan. Walls (except the top) are shown in black. You can now see the available aisle space.

PRR Panhandle 2.0 v032.jpg (696.8 KiB) Viewed 4691 times

Let's take a close-up look at the Eastern end of the layout first.

PRR Panhandle 2.0 v032-R.jpg (484.03 KiB) Viewed 4691 times

Moving right to left (east to west), here's a partial list of the changes:

• Resizing of the Staging Area. It is now 6'x11'. White spaces within are open areas (holes) in which the operator can stand. The basement window is shown. The back of the divider will be used to hold train storage shelving. This area will be used to make up and store trains.
• The Weirton Steel area picked up about 11 sq feet (down from the previous 22 sq feet). I think it is enough to accommodate at least part of a blast furnace (cast house, kettle, and 1 stove) jutting out from the backdrop (divider). The lime green areas are pop-up access hatches. The back of the Open Hearth building will be open to give access to derailed cars. The Strip Steel and Blooming Mills will be supported by the table top but reachable from underneath.
• The specific track geometries were tweaked. We now have a loop of track within the mill complex for turning a train (thanks Chuck!). And a wye was added. This gives us a lot of flexibility in turning outbound trains.
• The divider will hold a backdrop composed of Weirton Steel buildings (photograph).
• The blackish/dark gray area is Standard Slag; track directly below it (south) is for dumping slag.
• Weirton Junction was lengthened. The bottom most track is reserved for cabin cars. The two tracks above it are for freight / steel related cars.
• A doubled-sided backdrop will divide Weirton Junction from Weirton itself. On the Weirton Junction side, this will be a photograph of trees with some actual trees in the foreground. On the Weirton side, the backdrop will climb as it heads up County Road. It should just be high enough to split the scenes.
• Aisles are approximately 2.5' to 3' wide. There is one 2' wide section near the bridge. I had to make some real fine adjustments to keep the O72 curves.

Looking at the Western end of the layout:

PRR Panhandle 2.0 v032-L.jpg (337.84 KiB) Viewed 4691 times




• The bridge module has been redrawn to accurately reflect the size and position of the approach spans and the arch. Track east of the bridge will be positioned on fill. I'm trying a new technique here.
• Tracks west of the bridge have wide sweeping curves (O138 in one case).
• The mountain is significantly larger (7'x8') than the one planned for Panhandle 1.0.
• I am still debating the fate of the coal mine. At this point, I have a lot more space to portray downtown Steubenville and I am inclined to use it for that purpose.
• Access hatches for Steubenville have not been created yet. Their position will depend on the placement of streets and buildings, which has not yet been elaborated.
• Below the level of the layout (shown in a yellowish color) is the River Route. This will be a completely separate loop. It will use the TPC-400 to permit conventional running. It will give any visiting smaller kids a chance to run a train.

George

[rogruth]

Lots of coal trains on the river route.

[G3750]

Lots of coal trains on the river route.

That's very useful, Roger. I will run a number of them.

Thanks for that. Any thoughts on the rest of the revised plan?

George

[rogruth]

I seem to recall that you mentioned that traffic through the bridge was always the same direction. I took that to mean one track was east bound and the other west bound. With the reversing loop in the plan that would now be changed. I think. Might that change your signaling plans?
On the west/left end there are some small white rectangles crossing the track. Are those tunnel portals? If so, try to be very careful where you have switches oops turnouts inside the tunnels. about the switches. This is 3 R O.
The east/right end past the scene divide is the staging area. You are going to put shelves on the back of the divider for car storage. I like that because it has them near-by to where they can be put in use. How thick will the divider be and how will the shelves be mounted?

[G3750]

I seem to recall that you mentioned that traffic through the bridge was always the same direction. I took that to mean one track was east bound and the other west bound. With the reversing loop in the plan that would now be changed. I think. Might that change your signaling plans?
On the west/left end there are some small white rectangles crossing the track. Are those tunnel portals? If so, try to be very careful where you have switches oops turnouts inside the tunnels. about the switches. This is 3 R O.
The east/right end past the scene divide is the staging area. You are going to put shelves on the back of the divider for car storage. I like that because it has them near-by to where they can be put in use. How thick will the divider be and how will the shelves be mounted?

The bridge will have 1 east bound track and 1 west bound track. The reversing loop is really for use by the Weirton Steel switcher(s). Trains will have to travel between the mill and Standard Slag. I had not given much thought to signaling the layout for bi-directional travel. Most of the yards are accessed through trailing point turnouts.

I have learned my lesson well about switches (turnouts) in tunnels. No, no, and hell no! Yes, those are tunnel portals, but I have no turnouts inside tunnels this time around.

The divider will be a sheet of masonite (1/8"?) supported by six vertical 2"x2"s. The masonite side will hold the backdrop. The shelves will be mounted on the other side to the 2x2s.

George

[rogruth]

OK. That looks good then. I assume you will make some adjustments as you go.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I have learned my lesson well about switches (turnouts) in tunnels. No, no, and hell no! Yes, those are tunnel portals, but I have no turnouts inside tunnels this time around.

A switch in a tunnel is a switch destined for failure.

The divider will be a sheet of masonite (1/8"?) supported by six vertical 2"x2"s. The masonite side will hold the backdrop. The shelves will be mounted on the other side to the 2x2s.

I have a small scene divider unit on my layout; just foam board. What goes on behind the divider is to be ignored, not unlike the man behind the curtain

[G3750]

I have learned my lesson well about switches (turnouts) in tunnels. No, no, and hell no! Yes, those are tunnel portals, but I have no turnouts inside tunnels this time around.

A switch in a tunnel is a switch destined for failure.

The divider will be a sheet of masonite (1/8"?) supported by six vertical 2"x2"s. The masonite side will hold the backdrop. The shelves will be mounted on the other side to the 2x2s.

I have a small scene divider unit on my layout; just foam board. What goes on behind the divider is to be ignored, not unlike the man behind the curtain

Agreed. A switch in a tunnel is a recipe for disaster.

I also have a small divider snaking between Weirton and Weirton Junction.

George