Seen in Print

[webenda]

For example, take the horse. Available fossil record appears to indicate to some minds that it began small, with a different foot, and approx. the size of a greyhound, had to run for its survival, so ever larger legs and muscles develop over time, thus needing larger lungs and heart = larger chests, increasing height and overall dimensions, etc.
Murph

Yes, take the horse proof of evolution. (In keeping with the subject of this thread, here it is in a print. )

The Evolution of the Horse Lie

01d-0-geneticsistheregod-28-638.jpg (131.38 KiB) Viewed 2932 times

The horses are not arranged in chronological order. They are arrange to perpetuate a lie.

This is not a religious argument, as the source of the print above and Ben Stein in "Expelled" made it, but an argument against the teaching of false science.

Evolution is evident in fossil records. The truth about about fossil records is distorted into a lie to prove a theory.

Richard Milner has found a way to speak the truth on evolution without getting fired, he sings it in a comedic way.
https://youtu.be/_FI6lOCA30U

[MurphOnMillerAve]

Interesting, indeed, my friend. Thank you. Got more?
Murph

[webenda]

Sure Murph.
First the "Seen in Print"

Evolution of Man

What we have evolved into.jpg (41.09 KiB) Viewed 2909 times

Then the video => https://youtu.be/AYBRbCLI4zU
Warning--two hour video (1.6 GB if you download it.)

[MurphOnMillerAve]

Hi Wayne, With all due respect, I said I found that horse chart interesting. I did not say I was converted on the spot to your way of thinking regarding theories of evolution, just because you said so and did so with vehemence.

What your chart about the horses indicates to me is that the fossil record is missing specimens - gaps, as it were - in the long, long, long, very long history of that animal. If their changes took 100's of millions of years and occurred millions of years in the very distant past, it should not be surprising that some of the story is inaccurate or distorted or missing. Maybe a little arranging and re-arranging of specimens is a way to understand?

I'm just not sure the horse, in all its present forms, like Clydesdales (sp?) and Arabians, for example, just occurred one lovely weekday (of the Julian Calendar, no less) afternoon in a happy little garden, awaiting their new names. Maybe so. Why not. And how 'bout those camels? And how about those whales - used to be a wolf-like land-dwelling creature that took to hunting fish at seashores? Preposterous, too?

A 100 million years from now, or even just a million, how much of our civilization will be found by archeologists and anthropologists, and one wonders how much of what might be unearthed would give a total and clear picture or fossil record of our civilization and of Earth's human story.
Murph

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Back to the theme...........

[Tom Dempsey]

But someone, somewhere will still be operating doorstops, I suppose.

[Tramp]

But it is perfectly true. The word "nothing" is written in stone. I like what Keats placed on his stone. "Here lies one whose name is writ in water." Can anyone tell me who managed that for Keats? Can you tell me what he intended with it?

[Rufus T. Firefly]

But it is perfectly true. The word "nothing" is written in stone.

Exactly so, yet we use the phase............. Reminds me of an old Gahan Wilson cartoon/book -- "Is nothing sacred?"

[aterry11]

Tramp
Bruce Lee's answer be like water for it is the strongest of all is where keats headstone was going

[webenda]

What your chart about the horses indicates to me is that the fossil record is missing specimens…

No doubt. I have ridden my bicycle past dead animals ranging in size from a mouse to a steer and noted the carcasses disappear without ever fossilizing. The mouse was gone the next day. The steer took two years. Once the fur and skin disappeared, the bones seemed to walk away… I found them farther and farther from the original site every day. I really expected the head to remain, but it too was gone one day. Singer, Encyclopedia of Paleontology, 1999, states, "…It appears that 85 to 97 percent of all the species in the nine, well-skeletonized phyla that have ever lived have never been fossilized." It may be the missing horse fossil you* are looking for does not exist.

*Not you literally, the bone hunters we all cheer on, and share in their joy at finding new fossil species through reading about it in the media.

I'm just not sure the horse, in all its present forms, like Clydesdales (sp?) and Arabians, for example, just occurred one lovely weekday (of the Julian Calendar, no less) afternoon in a happy little garden, awaiting their new names.

Good to be skeptical on that idea Murph. Google, "where did the 'name of horse breed' originate" and you will find the Clydesdales and Arabians did not just occur one day, they were bred and cross bred from existing horse breeds who, in turn, were bread from existing horse breeds… all the way back to some proto horse (or horses.)

Here is a "Seen in Print" from 2500 B.C.E. You can detect different breeds of horse in the panel.

Standard of Ur - War Panel

Standard_of_Ur_-_War.jpg (122.95 KiB) Viewed 2844 times

Hmm, the war horses of Ur seem to have wind up keys on their backs. I wonder if they were mechanical? Did you notice the little dark horse on right side of display in front of an early horse fossil? It is an early mechanical horse.

The mechanical horse on the platform has already evolved into a larger horse like this one => https://youtu.be/1TXOHAVuS5Q

And for the military, an even larger draft horse version => https://youtu.be/cr-wBpYpSfE

[webenda]

But it is perfectly true. The word "nothing" is written in stone. I like what Keats placed on his stone. "Here lies one whose name is writ in water." Can anyone tell me who managed that for Keats? Can you tell me what he intended with it?

I wish to guess at the answers to your questions Tramp.

Probably his friends Joseph Severn and Charles Brown had Keat's headstone engraved with, "Here lies One Whose Name was writ in Water" because that was Keats request as he lay dying from consumption (T.B.)

Keats was so poorly treated by critics I suspect he thought he would be forgotten as a poet after his death, i.e., his name would disappear from history--as a name written with water evaporates.

[MurphOnMillerAve]

Just for the record, unlike some who are firebrands (not a criticism) about what they perceive as a difficulty between Creationism and Evolution, I have not the slightest difficulty accepting both. I do not see them as mutually exclusive. Rather, I see the more recent as merely the further, more detailed, explanation of the former.

As an analogy, let me point out that for most of human history, including the unrecorded, we did not know about atoms and molecules; yet, they exist. We did not know about bacteria or viruses; yet, they exist.

What is referred to as a "day" or a "week" in antiquity may be representative of millions of so-called "years" in Time. Would humans of 10,000 years ago, or even 5,000 years ago, have understood the world being created over millions of - billions of - years? Perhaps no more than they would have understood or accepted brain surgery or eye surgery. They did not have all the tools necessary to understand such medical advances.. Given the tools and the details, perhaps they would have.

Fossils are tools, tools to finding an understanding in detail of what may actually have occurred. Once fossils were discovered and seen for what they are or may be, tools which can evidence a record we can put together for a more detailed understanding of the history here in our little corner of the known Universe.

These are my thoughts, the result of listening to priests and scientists, and even some priests who are scientists. I don't see the necessity for conflict between the two, in this regard about the fossil record. I see different voices telling the same story; maybe, not the exact same story in every detail, but the same basic history of a very long and detailed progress, process, and change.
Murph
P.S. My thanks to Bill and Rufus for graciously allowing this conversation (which should be brief, I trust) to exist here, in its own sort of evolution.)

[Rufus T. Firefly]

[rogruth]

[MurphOnMillerAve]

...

Hmm, the war horses of Ur seem to have wind up keys on their backs. I wonder if they were mechanical? Did you notice the little dark horse on right side of display in front of an early horse fossil? It is an early mechanical horse.

The mechanical horse on the platform ...

I can't interpret those objects as "wind-up keys," no matter how many times I have looked at them and tried. They seemed like controls for the reins to pass through on the way to the horses' necks/heads. May I suggest seeing them as wind-up keys is interpreting them through modern eyes, esp. through eyes that have seen roller-skate keys and some music boxes, applying that image to something completely unrelated. Also, I recall seeing a technicolor movie, back in the 50's, an "Alibaba and the Forty Thieves" / "Thief of Bagdad" (with Sabu) -type movie from Hollywood, that featured a flying carpet and a mechanical wind-up horse. But that movie was fantasy.

And I'm really uncertain what alleged wind-up horses have to do with any discussion of the fossil record for the evolution of horses.
Murph