Adams EMC E unit castings

[Dennis Holler]

Anyone have any loose parts they don't need? I got me a locomotive, just need one or two more parts!

[bob turner]

Hard to tell what you really need. All but the left side nose casting?

I don’t care for the E6, but have more than my share of E7s. I think maybe Bob Stevenson owns the patterns, although sand foundries are really getting scarce.

[Dennis Holler]

Bob, I just have the one piece!! lol. So maybe a but if a prank, but I keep an eye out for parts!

[bob turner]

Got it! There are mis-matched castings out there. Problem is, between the six of us here, not many parts exist at our fingertips.. I can maybe send you sheet sides, but it is easier, and with current shipping costs, way cheaper to make them yourself.

Check with Stevenson for a roof, left side nose, and rear bulkhead. Trucks are not much of a problem.

When you get really serious, an ad in Model Railroader always seems to get a response, even for really obscure stuff.

[steamaheadstephen59]

Bob What did you mean that trucks are not much of a problem. Do you mean that the Adams and Son castings are easy to get, or that there are lots of alternatives. I have the E6 nose and one side frame. Id like to do a A-B at some point, and my mind thinks Burlington in silver. To me the sides and roof are doable, but the truck side frames are a bit harder. I also not that the Adams nose is 17/64 in hight, but 1/4 in length, which way to go 17/64 or 1/4 scale???em!

[R.K. Maroon]

A few facts regarding doorstop E6 and E7 units

-- Adams and Son made casting sets for the E6 and E7 consisting of nose, roof, ends, fuel tank, steps, body bolsters, and sideframes:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/u98qwdaefwc81q22xne8a/Figure-10-Adams-Casting-Set.JPG?rlkey=amj5bwfc034ims9zx62ffslm4

-- Sieber Bros. made brass sides and a chassis to go with the A&S casting kit:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/f7tepddm76etakg1k948u/Figure-7-Sieber-Bros.-Chassis.jpg?rlkey=c7muy8l7e7r8qiecb2mxiqcye

-- The Sieber Bros. chassis used a cast frame, a large K&D motor mounted above the frame, a cast gear tower to transfer the drive motion down to the trucks, and a solid cast gearbox on each truck:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/cj0q56ohtlhoed29xmgxl/Figure-2-E6A-chassis.JPG?rlkey=qiy6knpmafeo3h0pd959l6zot

-- The Sieber Bros. gearbox was neither sprung nor equalized. Good quality Boston gears were utilized, but the diameter of the axle-mounted worm gear was too small for the load and the worm shaft was inadequately supported. As a result, the worm gears on these are almost always found to be stripped. The example shown below is about the only one of dozens I have that is still in operating condition:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/vhgny9x0bsgznbm1ywfzx/Figure-6-Sieber-Bros.-E6-Trucks.jpg?rlkey=fjb88qiju8idjw6ysgrf3ezvu

-- Fernando Valley also made sides and a chassis for the A&S casting sets:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7tw9dfvrvengpmetpno8a/Figure-6-Fernando-Valley-Shops.JPG?rlkey=utkxm1ebbe7seqdznrqesrcdg

-- As best I can tell, sides were only offered for the porthole versions, such as the UP and MP E3 prototypes:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xjds636a7h36kgbj08tj4/Figure-7-MP-Porthole-E6.jpg?rlkey=fbumk17emgzh4s9rt0mkgrll5

Here is a nice example of a FV model. Too bad GN never had any E6 units at all, much less any with portholes:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/d23bshnbov8s608syfkro/Figure-1-GN-E6AB_01.JPG?rlkey=1yggo5nc80e0rp2e9n2cwubbc

-- The FV chassis used a bolt-together, machined-component chassis, with a Lobaugh motor articulated between the truck gearcases:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/g1rfiakv1778grdlokdg3/Figure-2-Articulated-Drive.JPG?rlkey=fhrs81crzy4kyhwp636tr98t3

-- FV used a larger-diameter worm gear in their gearcases, so these units, when found, are more likely to still be viable.

-- Dallas Modelcraft, Diesel Model Company, Pomona Valley and Exacta also made doorstop E-units with some connection to Adams and Son, but these models are all relatively obscure compared to the Sieber Bros or Fernando Valley versions. I should also add that a lot of units are found that use the A&S casting set but with custom sides and drives provided by the modeler. All Nation and CLW drive setups are a popular choice.

-- Finally, to answer one question, it seems to me that original Adams and Son E-unit sideframes are pretty easy to find. The gearboxes get worn out but the sideframes don't. This is because the axles are supported by the gearcase, not the sideframe. Many of the sideframes one will find will not have the journals drilled out.

Jim

[Dennis Holler]

Thanks for the history Jim!! Great stuff!

[ScaleCraft]

Jimmy-
Your original kit photos show nose as one piece, not two. Which is correct?

[R.K. Maroon]

Good observation, Dave. A quick inventory of the E6 noses I have confirm that all of them are two piece. Some models hide this better than others:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/f88fdxk4r4q4thraxr4cs/Siebers-Adams-E6A-COLA.jpg?rlkey=d0bv6oy4e5xa36fe27xu4omsg

I looked at the noses I have carefully to see if there were any differences in the castings. I didn't see any, but I did notice that three of them had some similarities in how they were assembled. Check these two out:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/47a4cq0585uu7m1522agz/Adams-E6-Nose-01.jpg?rlkey=3joke9wysoq5nqme87iq6c19a


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/h1035iflieg3lvgberqsy/Adams-E6-nose-02.jpg?rlkey=xlrusg14xrvrtf1maz0s6lsfo

First, notice how the seams that join the two halves were beveled, and that this work is very clean. It is hard to get cuts that clean by hand, so I am guessing that they were jigged and machined somehow. Next, note that the headlight bore appears to be flat bottomed, as if it was done with an end-mill instead of a drill bit. Also, the head light bore is very well centered in the cast "shroud" that protrudes from the front of the nose (check out the UP unit in the first photo). This would be very hard for a hobbyist with hand-tools get cut this cleanly. Finally, the solder work is clean. Units that are soldered by the average Joe tend to be splotchy and irregular.

So I am thinking that Adams and Son jigged the nose halves up at the factory, soldered them together, and then milled out the headlight bore. Supporting that idea is the fact that the assembled nose, roof, and end are designed to be bolted together, and that this assembly would then bolt to the Siebers Bros chassis. This makes the model more easily assembled by the average hobbyist.

For what it is worth, CLW at some point started pre-soldering the PA castings together to likewise unburden the hobbyist from this task.

Jim

[bob turner]

A counterbore drill would be a good solution for that headlight. With care, you can grind your own from a dull drill bit. I made one approximately the right size a while back - can't remember what I needed it for. Maybe spot-facing a casting?

Most of my six axle doorstop roster is now painted, but I could go for the COLA paint scheme. Can we see the rest of it?

[bob turner]

Bump.

[Pacific Limited]

Thank you I really enjoyed going through this. Excellent history, nice work Bob

[bob turner]

Well, let's do the EMD E7s again. All the photos I posted years ago except the GM&O are gone. Here is one of Maroon's E7s:



Check out the windshield post just ahead of the wing window.

[bob turner]

We think this one is Exacta - bronze, with a matching aluminum B. Note the bats - they are close to the "Train of Tomorrow" display model.

[bob turner]

This one is a combination of an F nose and an E roof, with homemade sides. Near as we can figure, most of the Adams casting sets did not have cast sides, just slabs of brass with punched out vents and windows.