The AOL Boards and who has survived

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Neil
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The AOL Boards and who has survived

Postby Neil » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:28 am

For some reason I've been remembering 20-25 years ago today, and that fact that things change. Mike Wolf is thinking of selling and retiring. He was a young guy back then. I guess we all were. Pat Fusco (T Rex) is dead, as is Tom Grimason (cannot recall his handle), Mike Newcomer. Who else has passed into the great beyond?

Quite a few people who no longer are on the web as toy train fans. Robert Dobson for example. Or no longer active. Tony Lash, O Trains, Frank Razzagone, and others. Allan Miller is editor in chief of OGR. Whatever happened to the TOOGs? :). John Long and I are amongst the survivors thus far from that board to this board. Pat Calhoun and I occasionally cross paths on Facebook. Ted Bertiger, Jim Battaglia and others post on the OGR Forum a bit. Bob Thompson and Terry Smith are cherished long distance friends of mine, and Bob posts here occasionally, but more often on OGR. Who have I forgotten? Seayakbill who posts everywhere, including the new OGF.

Lots of people of the sort who used to constantly throw shade (mostly on Lionel :)) on AOL, and then the OGR Forum have migrated to the Model Train Forum or the O Gauge Forum because constant garment rending and anguish don't play well on the OGR Forum. People get invited to leave (including me at times). OGR have a business to run and don't want to scare people away, understandably, with borderline obsessives venting rage about the shade of red on the new N&W J and such things.
Neil

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chuck
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Re: The AOL Boards and who has survived

Postby chuck » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:54 pm

Times change, people do too. I never participated in AOL and gave up on OGRR back when the cliques got so bad that they were chasing away many talented people that didn't follow the party lines.

Rather than worry about the people that have gone by the wayside for whatever reason, I prefer to enjoy the company of those that are still around. I appreciate their sharing/showcasing their work and providing input/insight into mine.

I browsed through the new Lionel catalog. New stuff is way out of my price range and most has little or no interest to me. I did notice how much is now "built to order". LionChief seems to be a big hit and will continue to draw young blood. I'm not sure how many of the kids being drawn in now will still have any interest in trains/railroading 20 years from now.

One thing that is getting clearer to me is the net is not as useful as it once was. The ability to find USEFUL information is getting harder and harder.
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rogruth
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Re: The AOL Boards and who has survived

Postby rogruth » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:26 pm

I certainly agree with the above posts.

I agree also that the use of forums has seemed to go a different direction.When I needed answers on how to do almost anything model train related I got my answer here on MTJ. One can still get answers here but the section that regularly discusses model trains is the 2 rail one. Now don't misunderstand, MTJ is still my favorite and I hope it stays that way.

Of the other forums that I read, MTF usually has some interesting items and does cover all scales and has a lot of variety.

The newest forum, OGF, seems to be a self admiration society. I seem to be out of place there with the posters that relate how much stuff they have and how much they are going to buy. They also seem to be into how many posts can be made so a lot of the posts are just echos. I look in often and post now and then but may be asked/told to leave when someone there reads this.

I haven't been to OGR for some time but someone recently posted that they thought it was a little friendlier now. I probably need to visit.
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Re: The AOL Boards and who has survived

Postby E7 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:13 am

chuck wrote:Times change, people do too. I never participated in AOL and gave up on OGRR back when the cliques got so bad that they were chasing away many talented people that didn't follow the party lines.


The Orange box vs Purple Box thing is silly. That seemed to subside somewhat with the end of the BIG lawsuit. That said, I don't read the 3 rail side that closely, so I may just not notice it.

chuck wrote:I browsed through the new Lionel catalog. New stuff is way out of my price range and most has little or no interest to me. I did notice how much is now "built to order".


Presume by that you mean the numbers of items built, which kind of makes sense.

chuck wrote:One thing that is getting clearer to me is the net is not as useful as it once was. The ability to find USEFUL information is getting harder and harder.


Much more commercialized, and many, many people with agendas. Hard to tell if the good outweighs the bad!

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chuck
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Re: The AOL Boards and who has survived

Postby chuck » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:00 pm

I never got the orange vrs purple mentality. These are toys! There was also a lot of cliques on beyond simple orange vrs purple. Just glad to be out of it. The few people I miss occasionally post over here, e.g. Ben, Marty.

OK, Neil, I'll bite. Who in the Sam Hill is MW think he is going to sell to. I could see selling tooling. I don't see much future for the electronics. I SUPPOSE a company interested in Two Rail DCC might buy in and suspend production of three rail entirely. I do not know if the potential market share makes economic sense.
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Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
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Re: The AOL Boards and who has survived

Postby E7 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:56 am

chuck wrote:I never got the orange vrs purple mentality. These are toys! There was also a lot of cliques on beyond simple orange vrs purple. Just glad to be out of it. The few people I miss occasionally post over here, e.g. Ben, Marty.


Ben started a dynamite thread over there (OGR) titled "Old New York"

chuck wrote:OK, Neil, I'll bite. Who in the Sam Hill is MW think he is going to sell to. I could see selling tooling. I don't see much future for the electronics. I SUPPOSE a company interested in Two Rail DCC might buy in and suspend production of three rail entirely. I do not know if the potential market share makes economic sense.


I agree about the electronics, technology moves too fast. As for the tooling, might be a sticky wicket since it's in China!

Remember Pete Kruimer that championed the 3 rail scale thing and and then abruptly disappeared, only to recently return? Then there was stud rail, which several people tried to perfect and either went 2 rail or vanished, the chief of those being a fellow named Fred Swain.

Neil
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Re: The AOL Boards and who has survived

Postby Neil » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:37 am

"Who in the Sam Hill is MW think he is going to sell to."

Key questions, obviously. I have no real idea. What I think I know is that Mike Wolf is a very proud and arrogant guy, like many self-made men. He created a company that once had over a hundred employees and probably still does tens of millions of dollars a year in business, even in a slowly dying industry. He has been an industry leader. He's employed people who are universally liked and respected, who have kept him from self-destructing at times. I'm referring to Andy Edleman and Rich Foster, the former of whom I've met and been impressed by. Like anyone approaching his seventh decade, who has done all he will ever do in their profession, he's thinking of spending more time in his chosen home, Florida, perhaps with his family, but definitely not making model trains. That's not entirely supposition on my part, but certainly not based upon first hand knowledge.

I'm sure he values the company somewhere in the 50-100 million dollar range, at least (my guess). I doubt there is anyone foolish enough to pay much more than 10-20% of that, so there's a dilemma. The tooling is not in his physical possession and is designed for PS3. I'm guessing adapting it to something less arcane and unreliable, like DCC, LionChief or TMCC/Legacy isn't going to be cheap. So Lionel's interest will be in getting a bargain, and no one else is going to be interested at all. I would be surprised if he sold the company at fire sale prices to Lionel (or anyone else, for that matter). Certainly not Bachmann or Atlas, etc. They will have minimal to no interest in the whole company at those prices is my guess. The employees are not going to be able to come up with the money in all likelihood so that route may not be open.

All this is total and perhaps way off base speculation on my part, but I suspect there's a kernel of truth in it because there is not even the smallest rumor that a sale or transition is on the way after some time of public knowledge that he wanted out. He's got a problem. Despite the fact that a few of his fans I've known have been amongst the most offensive and ignorant idiots :), I hope he can find some buyer or other way out that preserves the company, if only for the employees, who are without any blame for the unpleasant things he's done, and for the hobbyists who have hitched their pleasure to his bandwagon, with no blame for causing disharmony in the hobby. Time will tell.
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Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: The AOL Boards and who has survived

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:59 am

Neil wrote:He's got a problem.


:mrgreen:
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Re: The AOL Boards and who has survived

Postby E7 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:29 pm

Do you think anyone over at Lionel has started giggling yet?

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G3750
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Re: The AOL Boards and who has survived

Postby G3750 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:00 pm

I think it will be very hard for any model railroading company (of major size) to change hands intact.

MTH does have some assets that would be in demand - Premier locomotive tooling (particularly the shells, not the guts), freight car tooling, and the tooling for buildings and accessories. But DCS, the support infrastructure, and the backlog of quality issues are not selling points.

I don't see the company selling for anything approaching $50-100 M. No way. In fact, I don't see it selling intact; it would have to be broken up.

But that's just my opinion. Time will tell.

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rogruth
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Re: The AOL Boards and who has survived

Postby rogruth » Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:26 pm

This might be similar in some respects to what J.L.Cowen did with the Lionel company when he decided to retire except he was able to keep it in the family for a while. Mr. Wolfe may only be able to take what he can get and run.
Depending on which forum one reads what is happening seems to vary considerably.

Lionel has no quality control and will lose customers to MTH because of that.
MTH has a quirky control system that is always needing fixes and has no appeal to starting hobbyists.
Lionels top line is too expensive and MTH line has no starter line that appeals to kids.
The whole hobby is going to hell in a hand-basket and can't be saved.

These are all quotes, paraphrased, that I have read on various forums.

Try to have some FUN.
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healey36
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Re: The AOL Boards and who has survived

Postby healey36 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:18 am

Never say never. I recall when Pleasant Rowland stunningly sold her American Doll Company to Mattel for $700 million back in 1998. American Doll, much like MTH, was little more than a cottage-brand in the toy industry, selling high-end, expensive toys to a limited market. Granted, a lot has changed in that industry in the last 20+ years, but anything remains possible.

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Big Jim
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Re: The AOL Boards and who has survived

Postby Big Jim » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:18 am

I'm still here, just a different name from the AOL boards.

Neil
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Re: The AOL Boards and who has survived

Postby Neil » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:01 pm

My AOL handle was inherited from my older son (now 37 :)). Dahdah911 (his initials). Who were you Big Jim?
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Re: The AOL Boards and who has survived

Postby E7 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:32 pm

Ala MTH, I saw this over on NK: In my email inbox a surprise from MTH. It seems that the service manager Jason Wenzel has abruptly departed from MTH.


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