Why isn't O Scale 2-Rail more popular with model railroaders?

[bob turner]

I am not advocating that we buy anything. I don't care if this grows.
In fact, I am one of those strange folks who think steady growth is fatal - I am hoping that some day we come up with a plan to survive in stasis.
But if you do not buy the stuff that is currently produced, do not expect more and better. Entrepreneurs are usually smarter than that.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

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[sarge]

But if you do not buy the stuff that is currently produced, do not expect more and better. Entrepreneurs are usually smarter than that.

Bollocks. If that were true, we'd all be nailing boxcars together and buying the stuff you collect as state of the art. Grin!

Entrepreneurs think they are smarter than that until new aggressive ones snatch their places in a small marketplace by offering better stuff.

[Chris Webster]

Entrepreneurs think they are smarter than that until new aggressive ones snatch their places in a small marketplace by offering better stuff.

I really don't think there are any entrepreneurs left in the 2-rail marketplace - instead, we just have modelers who wanted better products for themselves and had the resources & skill to do just that.

Maybe Criswell is the last one -- if he no longer has time to model for himself, then he probably qualifies as an entrepreneur.

[bob turner]

Well, I am going to stand up for myself. O Scale has had fine products - not doorstops, but truly fine, well-detailed models. Key comes to mind - KTM USA - Kohs, maybe. For sure Bultmann. Wasatch. Ask them whether they want to continue serving this market with more and better models.

Scott Mann is producing excellent models.

If this market were underserved, I guarantee there would be lots of folks jumping in -

I simply disagree - the products have been there. The market hasn't.

And that doesn't include plastics. There are so many plastic models available today that would knock your socks off - just send a new Lionel PA to Jay with a thousand bucks and you will have a 2-rail model every bit as good as Key. Or buy a PS-1 boxcar and put Kadees and scale wheels on it.

Opinion, for . . .

[up148]

If it's any indication of growth or interest, the current (past 3-4 months) selling price of brass models on EB says there is a renewed interest in O scale. I don't see our generation of modeler/collector buying much these days (most likely selling), so it's got to be another group. Maybe it's road specific, but UP brass models haven't brought these prices for a very long time.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

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[sarge]

Butch, I'm not sure if its asking price or actual selling price, though. There are a couple guys asking stupid money for brass but I see strong sales but only for reasonable money if searching completed auctions.

Still, brass is more telling of the collector market rather than the hobbiest market, so perhaps more tangential or scale specific interest than O scale being a venue the general hobbiest would consider compared to HO or N.

Bob, I appreciate your defence, but I'm afraid you're really out of touch with the sector if you think Kohs, Key, even Sunset brass is remotely in the mix for the people in question. These people are not going to have the remotest interest in a $500 steam-era PRR cabin or yet another run of PAs, Es and Fs (the only thing Key has done in thirty years). As far as asking Henry anything, well, that ain't happening. All that stuff is in the stratosphere, for old men with gobs of disposable income and display cases to fill with one of everything, not even in the conversation for thirty-something hobbiests.

Scotts plastic diesels are in the mix, as are Atlas. Scotts are better, but the cost is now in line with used brass from the 90s which is where I go. Where I go, like where you go, isn't even germane though. For the modern hobbiest, many HO diesels are far better than Scott's at under half the price. Those were the examples I showed earlier, and that is where rubber really hits the road.

As far as so many plastic models "out there that will knock your socks off", your socks are loose. Buy a PA and then spend a grand? Really? An HO PA out of the box of better fidelity, DCC Sound, reservations from Rapido, $335 MSRP. As far as freight cars, I defy you to find one offering since the lamented demise of the San Juan tank car in RTR plastic that equals mainstream HO out of the box. No truck changing, no filling in missing frames, no replacing stirrups that are robust enough for little hands like my toy trains were; out of the box.

I do very much appreciate their existence, and there is good material to work with. I do have to break every bone in their little bodies to get them to some acceptable level of fidelity, even though I'm what Rufus described as a "crash and trash ops guy" (didn't think I got that dig, Ruf? Grin!) Still what I can live with isn't germane.

You are kinda right if we expand the view a bit, though. I'd certainly say a person looking at O is going to decide the high-end brass models (that no-one is importing right now) are of prototypes that are old-man nostalgia stuff and are hideously expensive, the current RTR (brass or plastic) doesn't measure up to the smaller scales, or else they will be hatter-mad like you and me and think this is a challenge to see what can be built.

I personally like O scale being a craftsman's scale again, wish we could once again be by ourselves without the three-rail industry demanding we abandon our value criteria because they think somehow they own us, I wish Atlas well flogging re-hashed MTH crap but don't expect me to appreciate it let alone buy it, and there are plenty of used models for me from the real heyday of O back in the last four decades of the 20th century. I'm even happily re-reading my Mainline Modeler collection. Those were the days and I'd love to see O back as it was then. Importantly, the only place that will happen is in my house, and I would be insane not to realise it.

Still, that is just one old man's preference, and will not appeal to many today compared to what they can see in the smaller scales. They will not look if O has nothing to show them in direct comparison to the other scale choices. Simples.

[Jay Criswell]

Maybe Criswell is the last one -- if he no longer has time to model for himself, then he probably qualifies as an entrepreneur.

Or just a run of the mill moron!

Jay

[Rufus T. Firefly]

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[herronpeter]

@BobTurner,

I agree 100%. One of the reasons I don’t post much anymore. Time spent reading and posting to forums is time away from actual building and modeling.

"Leave me alone, I got a Railroad to build"!!

Peter

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Having been once again reminded, I'll not waste my time here any more.

[sarge]

You shouldn't leave, Ruf.

I'm the one out of step here, not you. It really has become obvious my interests are not in line with this forum. Even though my own way of enjoying this scale isn't going to adapt to some brave new world, I do care what younger folk think, how the scale presents itself to newcomers, and I'll stand with them looking at this forum as a bunch of old grumpy guys who think seventy year old product should be good enough for 'em, dammit, so lets stop talking about this and show our AN NW2s.

I was all for showing them off, too, then maybe leading off to the modern "standard" against which all are compared, the Atlas SW series, until I read this...

All I am doing is trying to get some interest drawn away from what appears to be an inane discussion.

...followed by the rest of the congregation in agreement.

So no. Its all yours. I gave it a last good shot and its clear I'm the one wasting your and everyone else's time.

[up148]

Nonsense! No one should leave. On this forum you need thick skin and that's okay. No one means seriously negative comments, just being flippant and not thinking beyond their post. The world is not made to wear feelings on your sleeve.

All must stay!

So it is written....so it must be.

[DaveJfr0]

I don't really see anything out of line here. People are granted to their opinions.

It's actually interesting to read everyone's opinion, whether its different from the majority, considered extreme, etc. The opinions and modeling here do tend to differ from what I see elsewhere, but that's actually refreshing and makes this place special. I know for some tough questions, I can come here for an honest and reliable answer.

If someone is getting emotional over the posts, its maybe best to step away a day or two and come back, but no need to leave forever. The great thing about here is that no one here is secretly editing or deleting your posts in the background.