This was some of the ongoing notes between Key and I that might be helpful. I will add them in as I go along here and find them. These notes are from 2009-2011
—————-
Monday arrival
Here is the deal based on the color schematic you sent me last week Dave:
Black Nose "As Delivered with 1941-1942 modified pilot hinged doors"
1) Change out the Vertical Roof Vents on the B unit with Horizontal Roof Vents.
2) Add Hinges to the pilot coupler doors for function (see photos in package) CB&Q added these around 1941-1942
3) Add Cut-Levers to the sides of the nose above the anti-cimbers
4) Remove Spark Arrestors and use standard EMD early E unit exhaust stacks
Painting and Lettering: Stainless areas are the entire body and Pilot, Anti-Climbers. I say uniform finish throughout, no variation in finish on the Stainless and Truck Skirts were all Stainless Steel. Silver paint was applied to the window frames on the body side NOT CAB windows, Steps, the Trucks and the Hoses, Steam Lines etc and Full Width-Diaphragm(s) were all silver painted. Other than names the only unit that showed different lettering was the "Texas Zephyr" units in red and finally the Silver Bullet #9909 the Silver Streak Zephyr that was repainted to normal pool by 1945.
(The black nose project is pretty straight forward. they are all the same for CB&Q on the most part. It was only the hinged doors on the pilot that was seen early on for modifications. CB&Q used the existing stainless pilot coupler cover panel and cut it in the middle and added hinges to the sides, very simple, same sculpt.. see photos It is your call Dave and Roger if you want this added, I like them either way. Also I see some photo evidence on 9980A/B with flat-silver paint applied around the windshields to reduce glare. I am unsure how many if any other black nose era E5's had this.. I think it might have been experimental before the black was used on the same area later on in the mid to late 40's. I would AVOID this detail and leave the windshield area free of any paint except for the window seal itself on the black nose models.)
Red Nose
1) Change out the Vertical Roof Vents on the B unit with Horizontal Roof Vents.
2) Change #9912 CB&Q-Pilot with Phase 1 Pilot with modifications seen in notes (hinged coupler doors and steam line access hatch below doors like standard E unit add Cut-Levers inside doors!)
3) Change color of Spark arrestors are black NOT red
4) Remove tall steam vent.. if you drop #9912
(The #9980 A/B "Texas Zephyr" lettering was stacked and black by this time, confirm by the photos.)
(The Red Nose project is very complicated to say the least; no two were exactly alike guys, frankly speaking #9912 was Frankenstein! I tried my best to cover the most common modifications in a time frame that still kept a clean beautiful locomotive used in passenger service maybe 1963? The C&S finally ended up with most of these guys and ruined them in freight service hauling tonnage over the Joint Line south of Littleton, Colorado. On my notes I mention that the varying Stainless Finish was likely either paint or just plain old age and wear. The road polished the sides and gave up on the pilots and the roof, ends etc. Rumors have it that the road in the 1960's both CB&Q and C&S acid bathed them and painted the silver on the roof and ends! EEEK! That paint would collect crap and very quickly looked like a flat finish on the roof in these old photos, road soot and grime built up on one trip to Minneapolis or Denver. It is your call on this one. In the case of the Red Nose a new shiny example is unlikely at all ever even if they just left the shops; so a flat coat on the roof and the ends is a good measure but not on the top of the nose. I would NEVER apply any flat on the top of the nose of these models IMHO. A 3"-4"Black Paint area was applied around the windshields of these Red Nose units pretty much on all from C&S to the Q. The pilots were silver but the Anit-Climbers still stainless except the box area immediately above the coupler doors it was silver (likely because it got the crap kicked out of it!), the trucks with NO skirts were silver, the diaphragms were silver, the steps silver, and the window frames silver except the cab windows. The road removed the fake grills and painted the red grills right on the stainless nose like the rest of the E unit fleet. The square hatches were visible and often open. The CB&Q logo was a scotch-lite decal that was not exactly the same fit for the steep slope of the E5 nose so it had a droopy look to it (see photos). MU lines were added just above the anti-climbers both sides and sometimes the hoses just hung out over the pilots, the pilots had been beaten to death and steam access hatches added. The Cut-Levers were moved into the inside of the pilots like a standard E7 or E8 and they left a bump of stainless fill in the holes were the old factory placed Cut-Levers used to be (see photos and notes, the engineer side had that hatch added and the trustees plate moved up, that is already done and good on the G.O.D.). whew...
You can see the Red Nose poses a rather unique challenge and it has been a LOAD of work and time finding as many details as I can possibly find on these. I hope I did not miss anything, God I hope not! I may have so double triple no quadruple check me guys!
Dave-
Call me when you get the packet.. let’s talk over the phone about any issues I might have missed.
—————-
Regarding full width diagrams which we’re in place through at least 1949, present in derailment in Illinois
Dave, I sent this to Mr. OH and he and I have been talking on Skype. He has no ideal about the cost of 50 of these as they have to be hand built one at a time, I'm not sure how he will ever figure out the cost until he builds them if you go that route. I asked him to guess the price, $25, $35, $50 and he just shook his head and said he didn't have any ideal what they will cost. He did say that he didn't understand why anyone would want to build such an expensive diaphragm. I think Mr OH understands how to build them if you want them. I think you know my position of full width diaphragms. I don't want them on any of my models, I don't like them, and they never work. They don't work because the forces that make them work on the full size passenger cars don't scale down and we operate on much sharper curves then the full size passenger trains did. A full size passenger car weights about 100,000 lbs. so a 'O' scale car should weigh 1/48 of that, or a little over 2,000 lbs. If they were that heavy the full width diaphragms would work but I can't imagine what the bench work would have to be, all steel I beams.
The E5 A units weighed 315,000 lbs, the B units 310,000 lbs. So the "O" Scale CB&Q E5' should weight at least 6458 lbs. I don't think you can get that much lead in the bodies, do you? This is one reason Full Width Diaphragms never work in any scale. And because they don't work I don't like them or want them on any models I own. They might look good on models sitting on the fire place mantle but not on a operating layout.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
This mass issue is also the reason model steam engines that are equalize don't work like the full size engines. Mass does not scale down, can you imagine what a "O" scale Big Boy would weight if it did. How about 25,000 lbs.
Erik,
I know I'm being Being Bull Headed about the diaphragms. Dave and I talked today about putting the Full Width Diaphragms in the box for those that want them. The cost is going to enter into all of this if we can ever get a price. We announced from day one on the CZ cars that they would not have full width diaphragm and we have not had a single complaint.
Mr Oh is looking into building the Full Width Diaphragms.
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
. 
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]