KEY Diesel Identification

[up148]

Okay, this falls under the "I've forgotten what I once thought I knew" category. I'm trying to identify and learn more about the time sequence of the imports by Key Models of their Samhongsa built E's and F's. Although I've owned several sets over the years, I guess I didn't pay as much attention as I should have and made assumptions.

Going by the box labels, it appears there was a "classic 78" and "custom 78" run, which I always thought the "78" was the year of import.....but I don't think that anymore. There's also a "classic" and "custom" 85 run, same story on import dates, again I don't think is correct anymore. I've never seen any other Samhongsa labels, although there might be more.

Does anyone remember the time periods these Samhongsa built models were imported and/or rumors they heard or discussions they had about labels and import dates?

I know Key went to FM Models for their builds either right before or after the Samhongsa factory burned down and IIRC, Samhongsa got tied up in the Lionel/MTH lawsuit around 2000.

I know this isn't a subject all are interested in, but I appreciate any little scraps of info we can piece together. Just kinda obsessed with this.

I appreciate your thoughts.

[sarge]

CS numbers were Key's catalogue numbers.

Near as I can ferret out from Brasstrains "brass guide", (whose info is very incomplete; looks like the research is limited to reading box labels):

CS78 is the range of Samhongsa F7s from 1988-89
CS85 is the range of Samhongsa E7, E8, E9, from 1990

There are also (though date is not reported)
CS90 which are Sam PAs
CS97 which are Sam F3s

Hopefully this gets you started. Earlier on in the mid-80s or so were the Samhongsa RS-2/RS-3/RSD-4/5

I went and looked at my records from when I flogged brass back in that era, and it appears their HO also carried a CS prefix catalogue number during that period.

[up148]

Great info and start Sarge. I was only familiar with the 78 & 85 series models; the series 97 for F's units is a new one to me, but sounds familiar way back in my memory, just isn't/wasn't clear. Never followed the PA's

I wonder what the difference is between "custom series" and "classic series" on the labels, as I've had both?

[up148]

Well, don't I feel stupid? Seems to happen more and more these days.

Last year I bought an AB set of Key F3's from Al Edel III, that he was selling for his mom, from his dads collection. New in the box (great find), so I decided to look at the box label just now and guess what........Custom Series 97........and the "A" unit has the shaded (black-out) number boards, just like my CS 85 E8's, imported in 1990.

I also discovered, going to the BT website (thanks for that suggestion too Sarge), that the later Key diesels, imported from FM Models, had box labels that say "Classic", but they don't show any manufacturer. I remember something discussed about the reasoning behind that too back in the day, but it's pretty cloudy. I'll attach label photos later.

Sure hope all this forgetfulness isn't a precursor to something coming far worse.

[sarge]

I wonder what the difference is between "custom series" and "classic series" on the labels, as I've had both?

I don't think there is any difference, other than an unimportant inconsistency of buzzwords.

[up148]

I think you may be right and I think I confused the later FM built model labels with Samhongsa model labels. I truly can't remember what my Sam box labels said from decades ago, but the two I own now say "Custom".

Below are some photos of my Sam labels and what I believe are FM labels, downloaded from BT's website. Interesting point, is what I believe to be FM Model builds show "Classic" designation, but no series number or the builder name on the label.....just "made in Korea". One label for the CB&Q E9 doesn't show series or builders name. Certainly these were from different runs.

So, it appears the "custom" designation was a Sam built model and the "classic" designation was a FM built model, at which sometime the designation was dropped from the label.

I think we've solved 90% of the mystery and I really appreciate Sarge's help to jump start my memory. Maybe as this thread ages others may read it and have something to add.


KEY Custom Series 85 E8's, Samhongsa

Key Custom Series 97 F3's, Samhongsa

Key Classic Series ? F9A, FM Models

Key Classic Series ? E9, FM Models

Key No Series listed E9A, FM Models

[E7]

Some additional opinion:/conjecture/guessing

The word "custom" on the Sam label means exactly that. The models were built to order (custom made) for the person that ordered them.

Classic on the FM labels is jargon

Samhongsa as builder was on all their boxes, FM models, Not

I agree with Sarge's analysis of the series number on the Samhongsa boxes.

I think there was one "run" under the Key Model Imports name done by Sam Model Tech (The boxes with the GOLD labels)

This and a buck will get you coffee.

[up148]

Good idea Rich. So you think this box could actually be a Sam Tech Models build, which would be the transition link between Samhongsa and FM Models? Interesting thought.

[E7]

Good idea Rich. So you think this box could actually be a Sam Tech Models build, which would be the transition link between Samhongsa and FM Models? Interesting thought.

That thought is purely based on the shape of the nose of the models in that run. Samhongsa had a machine that formed the cabs of their EMD diesels Sam Model Tech was a group of former Samhongsa employees who banded together after the dissolution of Samhongsa which happened roundabout year 2000. Sam modrl tech was founded in 2004 (they have a small website denoting this). Boo Rim Precision is also an offshoot of Samhongsa. I suspect one could write a novel about the brass builders. I got fascinated with the whole thing by reading John C. Smith's "Crapola from the Cupola" columns in early issues of "O Scale Trains" I liked the line: If you want to make a small fortune importing brass trains, start with a large one!" A lot of models of EMD F's and E's suffered from what I like to call: Pinnochio syndrome. The top (only in some cases) headlight was waaay too long. One would think NO photos of them existed! The best models of the covered wagons I've ever seen were the HO Athearn Genesis versions.

[Chris Webster]

The best models of the covered wagons I've ever seen were the HO Athearn Genesis versions.

Athearn's Genesis F-units are made using Paul Lubliner's Highliner tooling. Paul created the tooling and sells the undecorated kits on his Highliners website. Athearn sells the painted RTR models.

My understanding is that the prototype EMD noses were hand-hammered to shape, so no two are exactly the same. Paul measured 20-some prototype noses and some how made it all work out. (A friend in Ohio knows the story better -- Paul gave him one of the completely clear shells he made when the tooling used for the the first time. It is a really unique piece.)

[E7]

Thanks Chris, I had heard the Lubliner name before somewhere....maybe here. I knew the headlights were hand made. I have pictures somewhere of EMD employees up on covered wagon hoods grinding away bondo filler to get the shape correct/close. Add the headlight to the "close only counts in" list: Horseshoes, hand grenades, Thermonuclear weapons, EMD headlights!

Rich

[E7]

[/quote]

To the best of my knowledge:
Sam Model Tech Box

Note that the word "Classic" is NOT used

[up148]

Totally agree with Chris and Rich about the Athearn Genesis F units. It was so easy to see the difference between them and all other HO models, except the Lubliner kits. Finest RTR HO models to come down the pike. I remember reading the reviews and customer comments in the magazines at that time. I bought some just to check them out while doing O scale.