Passenger Cars 2021

[sarge]

Easy enough to change in 80 year’s time, Dave. Grin!

I would wonder if anything Minton made for anyone else would have had to have been in Q or if he relented if asked…

Idle musings, in reality.

[up148]

There is a lesson here, which is don't play Passenger Train Trivial Pursuit with my brother unless you are loaded for bear. When I think of streamliners and the GM&O, I think of The Rebel. So when Pete says there is more, I have to go look. The internet does not disappoint:



Yes, this is pre-GM&O Chicago and Alton, but as I understand it, both the car set and the locomotive, known historically as "B&O 50", both made it into GM&O colors (though not together?). Pretty cool.

The photo is credited to Otto Perry

Beautiful photo Jim of a time before me and I know it wasn't as romantic or wonderful as I like to imagine it was.................but what a great photo....thanks for posting.

[De Bruin]

Once again Jim salvages one of my more esoteric if not pedantic posts with that great photo.
Here's the link to some images of that former ex-B&O EMC box motor (AT&SF had their own equally ugly versions too albeit they don't quite look like this) note still in the B&O Royal Blue, one could guess C&A and B&O were still really cash poor for such things as paint back in the late 1930's
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_(train)#/media/File:The_Abraham_Lincoln_Alton_Railroad_1939.JPG
The unit finished it's service life on the GM&O on the commuter schedule to Joliet, aka "the Plug" shorn of its sheet metal looking like a GE/IR box motor on steroids
https://www.railarchive.net/vintagediesel/gmo1200.htm

[sarge]

Looks like its back, so let’s see:

On corrugated cars, I like the result I get with Kasiner’s when modelling the NYC Pullman Standard 64-chair cars.



In the late ‘60s, NYC ran Train 404/405 between Albany to Boston over the B&A. Earlier, that service was run with RDCs and called the “Beeliner” in the schedule. When NYC tried to drop it, they were refused permission over a technicality of statistics, much to their surprise and un-amusement. For several years after, they ran it with a single coach, usually one of the 64-chair cars, pulled by an E or an RS-3. I rode it a number of times.

It is a natural on my railroad to add in the Beeliner in the NYC/NH circa 1966 operating scenario, so here it is:




The RS-3 was an old Samhongsa Key model, back before Key went all upscale. They did this NYC specific passenger version, came to me a bit dog-eared and down on its luck, so crack out the solder, irons, and torches, rebuilt, painted, and put to work.

[bob turner]

Looks great. The Kasiners were NYC prototypes, I think. I have a set of them converted to Daylight, and a few smoothies in Sunset and Overland colors.

[robert.]

had one of those my camera failed me moments the other day. While driving the slow road home from Salem Ma. to SE.Pa. Somewhere along the central MA. CT. boarder. I saw an rs locomotive painted black with a NY. central orange lighting bolt pulling one aluminium passenger car. It's difficult to pull out a cellphone and snap a photo while your driving and it's just as hard to stop alongside the road. that loco had a beautiful paint job from 75 feet away. I tried to look for some photos on the net. Nothing to be found. I know it's not really passenger car photos. Sarge's photo jogged my memory of it.

[R.K. Maroon]

Holy cow -- so much to respond to here:

...think they are Pomona valley or Cronkhite.

I am near certain those are Pomona Valley cars, Bob. I don't have them but hope whoever does has a whole train's worth. I have seen Chronkite's Monel cars and they are a step up in fidelity. I have a photo somewhere....another one to add to the backlog of items to post.

Cronkhite should have been easy to spot with gauge right?

Easy enough to change (from Q trucks to O trucks)

Dave and Sarge bring up an interesting point -- obvious in retrospect but one I hadn't had to ever think about: You can't make a 17/64's car look right in O-scale by changing trucks, but you can make a Q-scale car look wrong.

The ex-B&O EMC box motor finished it's service life on the GM&O shorn of its sheet metal, looking like a GE/IR box motor on steroids

Here is the photo from Pete's link:



It does look like a stretch Ingersoll-Rand oil-electric. Or a diesel version of the Milwaukee Road's Westinghouse "Quill" electric. I have never considered scratch-building a diesel but this one calls to me for some reason. Wait....are those AAR Type B trucks? If not, what then?

I like the result I get with Kasiner’s when modelling the NYC Pullman Standard 64-chair cars.

Yea, I like the result you get too. I imagine my brother is foaming, as he seems to live for "death rattle" passenger trains. Are you sure you too aren't related?

The Kasiners were NYC prototypes, I think

I am going to quote Ed Bommer on this -- talk about a guy loaded for bear!



This is from Ed's article on the original Kasiner cars, OSR, Nov-Dec 2019'

Shoot, I was going to post something myself but it feels like I am past my allotted word and photo count for the day. Maybe tomorrow.

Jim

[sarge]

Dave and Sarge bring up an interesting point -- obvious in retrospect but one I hadn't had to ever think about: You can't make a 17/64's car look right in O-scale by changing trucks, but you can make a Q-scale car look wrong.

Jim, I’m having a senior moment here with this one, so help me out.

My understanding of “scale” vs. “gauge”

A 17/64” scale car will always look fine on O-gauge wheelsets, but O scale trucks will look wonky because they are undersized, simply because 17/64” to the foot (1/45) is the right scale to O gauge. There shouldn’t be any trucks to change because O scale and 17/64” run the same gauge.

If I remember correctly, Q isn’t a scale, its a gauge. It was the first go (arguably) at correcting the gauge for 1/4” to the foot (1/48) scale models. That true, changing the gauge from Q to O only makes Minton’s cars look, well, like every other American O scale model.

[bob turner]

Yep. Correct. There are a few who would argue with that, but they have no facts.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

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[E7]

I think Mr. Turner might tell you Q is 17/64 which to me is a scale. I think the recent change in wheel standards a few years back go a long way in making the appearance of "O" look good/better without requiring some change that makes things incompatible. I'm not intimating you are advocating anything of the sort, just confirming I'm not changing from plain old "O" no matter what.

PS: Maybe I am wrong about Turner!

[bob turner]

Not this Turner.

Sarge has it exactly and succinctly correct. To review:

17/64 is a scale, not a gauge. It fits on O Gauge track width. Trucks should be ever so slightly larger.

Q is a gauge - 1 3/16" to be exact. Very close to Proto-48. It is not a "scale."

O Scale cars (same as 1/4" scale) fit on Q-gauge wheelsets and truck widths.

17/64 Scale and Q Gauge are unrelated - except that both are correct in terms of gauge matching scale. The incorrect one in the bunch is called O Scale, which is 1/4" scale on five foot gauge. Our inherited scourge.

[bob turner]

No, Rich is wrong about 17/64 being Q Scale, a rumor promulgated by my friend Sam Schumaker, who has been in O Scale almost as long as I have. Well, maybe he is wrong about "Turner" too. Again, there is zero connection between Q Gauge and 17/64 scale. One might go so far as to call them opposites.

Here is a 17/64 passenger car on O Scale trucks:



Auel trucks would be more appropriate, since they are in fact 17/64. and were reproduced by USH, fully sprung with operating leaf springs.

This car has Exacta embossed copper sides, joined up with common wood components. I would do more of these, but the sides are difficult to find. I had a chance 30 years ago at a meet, and missed the opportunity.

[E7]

Not this Turner.

Sarge has it exactly and succinctly correct. To review:

17/64 is a scale, not a gauge. It fits on O Gauge track width. Trucks should be ever so slightly larger.

Q is a gauge - 1 3/16" to be exact. Very close to Proto-48. It is not a "scale."

O Scale cars (same as 1/4" scale) fit on Q-gauge wheelsets and truck widths.

17/64 Scale and Q Gauge are unrelated - except that both are correct in terms of gauge matching scale. The incorrect one in the bunch is called O Scale, which is 1/4" scale on five foot gauge. Our inherited scourge.

Mr. Turner,

I suggest you put your specs on and read my post again. The post has NOT been edited and nowhere does the word gauge appear, and it states:

I think Mr. Turner might tell you Q is 17/64 which to me is a scale.

"me" being myself.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

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