Lionel Buys MTH Tooling

[healey36]

An announcement over on the other forum reports that Lionel has purchased some of MTH’s tooling. It will be interesting to see what they bought and what they do with it.

[J. S. Bach]

One big complaint is that Lionel's MSRP prices have increased over MTH's MSRP prices by a significant amount.

[healey36]

You had to figure that would happen. I expect we’ll see prices increase across the board now that the competition has so sharply diminished. I just hope we’re not headed back to the Kughn era, when $1200-$1500 locomotives were the norm.

[robert.]

Shipping from china has gone up from $5,000 to $20,000. per shipping container. I don't know how that will workout per item for Lionel. If you have 15,000 items in a container that's only a buck more per item . If you have 300. That's fifty bucks an item. I also believe there is a 25 percent tariff coming soon. We have canceled the rest of our 2021 and all of 2022 orders from china and the Philippines.

[rogruth]

I guess I'm an odd-ball. I just never saw or understood what or why some thought MTH products were better than Lionel.
I have some of each companies rolling stock and one MTH loco which I operate conventionally and have never really liked it.
Oh, it looks nice. Never saw much difference between Lionel and MTH but I don't count rivets.

I do understand the concern about prices with the absence of competition.
Atlas never seemed to be a real factor the K-line and even Williams was.
I haven't bought much new since Williams before Bachmann.
I do have used Lionel, postwar and modern, no high end stuff.
I have some Menards rolling stock that is very acceptable to me.
I read complaints about badly made cars but I have never had a problem.
Maybe it's because I don't mind fixing small problems even on new stuff.

[healey36]

I've no dog in this fight either, Roger. I view all of this much like the consolidation of the railroad industry itself in the face of stiff competition and declining markets during the 1950s-1970s. It's all very interesting. I suspect the two-rail model-building segment of O-scale will continue to thrive, perhaps even expand, while the larger RTR segment will contract, rather sharply. That, IMHO, is largely a nostalgia gig that seems demographically imperiled.

[chuck]

The only inkling of a former MTH tool being used in the new Vol2 Lionel 2021 catalog is the C-Liner? I went to the MTH web site and pulled this line out of THEIR announcement of the sale:

The combined sale of the Atlas, Scale Trains and now Lionel purchases still leaves approximately 80% of the M.T.H. tooling portfolio in the hands of M.T.H. Many of those remaining products will continue to be marketed by M.T.H. via their e-newsletter promotions and as custom run releases via the M.T.H. Authorized Retail network.

I'm not sure how the above statement jives with the previous announcement of the Atlas sale (majority of accessories ......). I suppose they could have chosen to carve out the accessories? Either way that seems to leave a lot of material on the table.

[rogruth]

That still does not sound like MTH is closing but it might be a way for Mb. Wolfe to get out of day to day operations.

[Robert Bubeck]

The only inkling of a former MTH tool being used in the new Vol2 Lionel 2021 catalog is the C-Liner? I went to the MTH web site and pulled this line out of THEIR announcement of the sale:

The combined sale of the Atlas, Scale Trains and now Lionel purchases still leaves approximately 80% of the M.T.H. tooling portfolio in the hands of M.T.H. Many of those remaining products will continue to be marketed by M.T.H. via their e-newsletter promotions and as custom run releases via the M.T.H. Authorized Retail network.

I'm not sure how the above statement jives with the previous announcement of the Atlas sale (majority of accessories ......). I suppose they could have chosen to carve out the accessories? Either way that seems to leave a lot of material on the table.

The Strasburg cars cataloged in Lionel V2 are to be made using purchased MTH tooling, as well. With a hefty price increase, too.

Bob

[chuck]

Didn't know about the rolling stock. I haven't looked an an MTH catalog in years.

$200/car seems to be in line with 18" passenger cars from Lionel in recent years with full interior and passengers. 21" full scale are more like $250/car.

[G3750]

I'm not making excuses for Lionel, but in the past 6 months or so it seems that a lot of items are going up in price. The general increase has given a number of companies a smokescreen for bumping up their prices.

Lionel certainly increased the price of the ex-Weaver baggage cars. What sold in 2007-8 for $80 list ($60 street) is now listed for well over $100 and it's basically the same car. In the shop, I stocked ModelPower LED stick-on lights and then the Lionel version of them. The Circle L was good for a $2-4 price increase - same product.

It's possible that these price increases plus the inflationary wave we are experiencing will choke off a lot of the train buying. It remains to be seen.

George

[jlong]

It will save us the expense and trouble of having to gut PS-3 electronics for TMCC.

[rthomps]

"It will save us the expense and trouble of having to gut the PS-3 electronics for TMCC."

Hear! Hear!

[gregj410]

It will save us the expense and trouble of having to gut PS-3 electronics for TMCC.

Couldn’t agree more! I just spent more than I care to admit on a Ps2 to ERR conversion with super chuffer and LED’s. My ace in the hole is to convert the fleet over to ERR however there are quirky things with ERR I’m not completely satisfied with.

Hopefully Lionel will equip the MTH engines with Legacy or minimum TMCC and send the left over DCS remotes to the fan boys on OGR requesting a remote before DCS drifts off to never land.

[chuck]

Hopefully Lionel will equip the MTH engines with Legacy or minimum TMCC and send the left over DCS remotes to the fan boys on OGR requesting a remote before DCS drifts off to never land.

C-Liners are Legacy equipped.