Old Decal Restoration

[R.K. Maroon]

I have used the Micro-Sol and Micro-Set solvents to get new decals to soften and conform to rivets and otherwise sit down nicely. With old cast cars, which often have a porous surface, I regularly have to pin-prick the decal to get the air bubbles out, but all in all, the solvents work great.

Now consider these decals:





This is a metal-sided car. I would guess the decals are many decades old, and that they probably separated from the car sides a long, long time ago.

Question: Do I have any chance getting these to sit down?

In the not-too-distant past I would jumped right in with solvent in hand, but I am learning to slow down and ASK for help, as I would bet others have been here before me.

On smaller decals, I have had some luck with Futura floor finish, followed by gloss coat, followed by dull coat. These are much larger though and I am not sure the floor wax would seep far enough under the decal to fill the air gap.

Your experiences -- good and bad -- are of interest to me in this regard.
Jim

[sarge]

Jim

I’ve had good luck with a couple approaches, but the trick common to all is breaking the surface of the decal. A sewing needle works; a used insulin syringe is my favourite because I can shoot a little decal solvent in the field while pricking holes in the substrate. Either way, the holes allow solvent under the substrate rather than just around the edges.

Next suggestion is a friskier solvent. Micro is really mild. Solvaset is stronger; originally intended for those thick Walthers decals. Try that. Unavailable but better yet is the old Champ fluid. If you find some in an estate its worth grabbing; precious nectar indeed.

Look outside our little world, in this case to the plastic modelling community. Tamiya make a good solvent and also an “adhesive” for old decals. The IPMS crowd have products worth looking at.

Upping the ante, thinned glosscoat under the substrate sometimes works, thinned enough to flow by capillary action into the voids that are the silvery bits.

In the worst cases, I’ve gone straight to this very brutal technique. At least the older decalcomania substrates are films of lacquer, and I suspect the modern stuff are as well. I have been known to throw caution to the winds and shoot a little lacquer thinner neat under a decal with that same syringe, figuring I’m stripping it anyhow if it doesn’t work. Its about a 50/50 shot at best.

BTW, knowing decals are printing on a lacquer film leads one to the notion old unused decals can be refreshed before use by airbrushing a coat of gloss clear on the sheet, shot neat so it doesn’t soak through the existing film into the paper.

Hope it helps.

[bob turner]

Agree with that. Try Solvaset, sparingly at first.

If the decal has not been coated you should be in luck. If it was coated way back when with any kind of overcoat it may not work; then Sarge's pricking technique is the only hope.

[R.K. Maroon]

Thanks to Brian and Bob for the input. As it is, some years back an old bottle of Solvaset floated into the shop, a rider in a box of old bottles of model paint:


The price tag says $2.39, which is less than half of what is sells for now. That makes it old and iffy, but heck, those decals are old and iffy too, so what the heck -- I decided to give it a go.

Not having an insulin needle (used or otherwise), I settled for my trusty straight pin and a small paint brush. I am happy to report good results:


One might be unhappy with that if those were new decals going on fresh paint, but under the circumstances I am thrilled. The one thing I learned is to not poke it with the pin at an angle once you have applied the Solvaset, as the soft decal may roll up. Lesson learned, but overall a successful venture.

Thanks again, Gents -- On to the next thing!
Jim

[sarge]

Before you go on to the next thing, seal them with gloss, then flatten to taste. Leaving them unsealed, they will possibly do the same thing again over time.

[E7]

Not to sidetrack or subvert the conversation, but how do dry transfers compare, pros and cons and finding them?

Rich

[sarge]

Rich:

Dry transfers leave no substrate behind; no film. That makes the result thinner and nicer. That said, and I use them a lot, a couple thoughts:

Once they’ve aged out there is no saving them; if there is no tackiness left to them or the film that makes the figure is too old, they are useless.

Unsealed dry transfers from some manufacturers have a habit of flaking off a model with age. I always seal them. I’ve never had any luck saving them on a model if they are falling off, other than sealing what remains than filling in the flaked bits by hand-lettering.

Positioning them before burnishing them is a challenge. You can adjust decals but not dry transfers. Bugger it up? Lift with blue tape and do over.

Really tiny stuff, like car-end numbers, are often a pain to try and burnish on things like corrugated ends. An old trick is to keep a supply of clear decal paper. Burnish the lettering onto the decal paper nice and flat and easy, seal with clear gloss, then use it as a waterslide decal. Much easier to get a good result.

Old decals and dry transfers that are past it still have value as reference materials. If you are judicious about it, decals and transfers from defunct companies used as references for having new made for personal (non-commercial) use when there are no alternative sources is pretty safely fair use of printed matter (Disclaimer: do your own copyright and intellectual property research to establish your comfort level and understandings of fair use; don’t take my or any other internet pundit’s word for it).

Admittedly a bit of a core-dump, but hopefully something useful.

It’d be really nice if an American company used the method the Brits call “methfix” transfers. They look like a dry transfer, no substrate like a dry transfer. You position it like a dry transfer, but they don’t release from the backing paper even if burnished; you can lift and reposition if it isn’t quite right. Once you’re happy with the position, you wet the backing paper with methylated spirit (denatured alcohol) and only then does the transfer get released from the paper. They have all the advantages of a dry transfer but are re-positionable if you don’t like where it landed on the first try. Really nice.

[up148]

Great information on dry transfers Sarge. I've never used them, but often thought they might be a good solution, but not after reading your post.

It seems the Brits come up with good solutions to modeling problems all the time. I'm sure their solutions are always perfect, but I've been impressed with their ingenuity. Those "methfix" transfers sounds like the best of all worlds for thin transfer application. Interesting.

[ScaleCraft]

Thanks to Brian and Bob for the input. As it is, some years back an old bottle of Solvaset floated into the shop, a rider in a box of old bottles of model paint:


The price tag says $2.39, which is less than half of what is sells for now. That makes it old and iffy, but heck, those decals are old and iffy too, so what the heck -- I decided to give it a go.

Not having an insulin needle (used or otherwise), I settled for my trusty straight pin and a small paint brush. I am happy to report good results:


One might be unhappy with that if those were new decals going on fresh paint, but under the circumstances I am thrilled. The one thing I learned is to not poke it with the pin at an angle once you have applied the Solvaset, as the soft decal may roll up. Lesson learned, but overall a successful venture.

Thanks again, Gents -- On to the next thing!
Jim

I have an old straight pin with ball end. I stick it down along the top of the label, so it's always there.

[healey36]

It’d be really nice if an American company used the method the Brits call “methfix” transfers. They look like a dry transfer, no substrate like a dry transfer. You position it like a dry transfer, but they don’t release from the backing paper even if burnished; you can lift and reposition if it isn’t quite right. Once you’re happy with the position, you wet the backing paper with methylated spirit (denatured alcohol) and only then does the transfer get released from the paper. They have all the advantages of a dry transfer but are re-positionable if you don’t like where it landed on the first try. Really nice.

I have a couple sheets of those for 1/285-scale armor. They came without instructions but were described as wet; I had no idea what to do with them, so this was informative. Thanks.

[sarge]

Healey, cut one clear and try water first to release it. Should let go easily. If water doesn’t do it, then try methylated spirit. There are two versions of these, usually called Pressfix (position it, then water to release, and press with your wet finger) and Methfix (same process but methylated spirit usually cut 50/50 with water to release). With the latter, the meths also activate the adhesive.