Not Sure If 12K Awesome, But Awesome Nonetheless!

[E7]

From what I have read, one of the major issues with the T1 was wheel slippage, and from what I read about that, a lot of folks thought the cause of the problem was operator error. Maybe we will get to see if the T1 project gets completed!

As for Gauge 1 buyers (and ANY other gauge for that matter), THEY who put up LOOT to buy the stuff can do whatever the H*ll they please with it, and it's nobody's business but theirs.

Rich

[E7]

I learned at an early age about brass. Saw too many folks with glass front cabinets displaying their brass...and tearing the layouts up as the brass wouldn't run or pull.
Determined than and there I would not fall prey to the siren call of brass.

If I put a brass shell on one of your "good" running plastic engines, would that automatically turn it into a turd? I don't think the exterior material automatically determines anything. Trash comes in all formats. That said, if plastic or anything else is your preference, it works for me!

Rich

PS: I'd be the first to agree that BRASS is probably NOT the optimal material for outside running.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Sometimes a brass model is actually the only available option for specific prototypes.

[ScaleCraft]

I learned at an early age about brass. Saw too many folks with glass front cabinets displaying their brass...and tearing the layouts up as the brass wouldn't run or pull.
Determined than and there I would not fall prey to the siren call of brass.

If I put a brass shell on one of your "good" running plastic engines, would that automatically turn it into a turd? I don't think the exterior material automatically determines anything. Trash comes in all formats. That said, if plastic or anything else is your preference, it works for me!

Rich

PS: I'd be the first to agree that BRASS is probably NOT the optimal material for outside running.

No, and you know that. But, I can tell you from the repair end just how bad the carp is in #1.

Berlyn. "We make museum pieces, not engines that run". Kid you not. Track power, cannot get it to go around a corner without wheels shorting against piping. Drawbar is "just like the prototype", but we don't have "prototype" curves, and the tender binds and flips it off the track. Even when Malcolm Furlow went through the prototype and made all the recommendations, and Theo made the first quote.
Butt-soldered fittings, handrails, piping.....neat...and then "factory painted"...and they fall off.

Now what?

Drill holes, make new railings, solder....and repaint. What's your definition of "turd"?

Axle gears...I can elucidate extensively. Spares...I can do so there, also.

Accucrap. Ever hear the issue on the C-16? K-27? Ever try to get a K-27 apart? I have. And listened to Bing and Charlie berate me over my commentary on the Pittman choice...that Pittman had "engineered" the motors....but I had already discussed it with Joe Mella at Pittman...and the cheap sob's chose a unit off the shelf, not an "E" or Engineered version....that was capable of handling, barely, the current required to move the locomotive, light, by itself of straight and level track. And their QC statement? Will the locomotive run itself on straight and level track? Then it does what it needs to.

Not saying plastic PRC carp is "better", but you don't end up with shorts, failed solder joints, corrosion, and EXPENSE.
You get the same attitudinal deficiency you see in smaller scales..."I bought a $3500 Berlyn and you didn't"

Of course, there is the local 0 scaler who used to be a dealer in brass...who bought one of everything (or so it seemed), took it out of the box, ooohed and ahhhed over it, put it back in the box and mailed it off to be reworked so it would run.

60 years of seeing that.....why I went down the "doorstop" road. I can beat the arrogant prats over the head with a sand cast bronze boiler.

[E7]

60 years of seeing that.....why I went down the "doorstop" road. I can beat the arrogant prats over the head with a sand cast bronze boiler.

I kinda like that!

All my meager experience is in "O" scale. There are tons of brass engines that run very well in "O" which is my basis for saying that brass is not the problem. I would think that battery power would eliminate a lot of the shorting problems.

Rich

[E7]

Not saying plastic PRC carp is "better", but you don't end up with shorts, failed solder joints, corrosion, and EXPENSE. You get the same attitudinal deficiency you see in smaller scales..."I bought a $3500 Berlyn and you didn't"

That just shows the immaturity of the person saying it. No matter what the scale, What someone likes is simply that.....what they like.

Not everyone has $3500 to spend on toys and there is NO shame in that.

Rich

[Rufus T. Firefly]

There are tons of brass engines that run very well in "O" which is my basis for saying that brass is not the problem.

Very true. The medium is not the real source of problems.

I would think that battery power would eliminate a lot of the shorting problems.

Many shorting problems might also be attributed to ID-10-t user error

[ScaleCraft]

Many shorting problems might also be attributed to ID-10-t user error

Or, arrogant-level 1D-10-T manufacturer error

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Many shorting problems might also be attributed to ID-10-t user error

Or, arrogant-level 1D-10-T manufacturer error

Some of that as well, but attempting run stuff that was essentially made for display collectors - you get what you paid for....

[ScaleCraft]

As was most of the early Half-0, and a lot of the 0 up until 20-25 years ago.

Then we have folks on this very forum who specialize in remotor/regear of brass stuff......I guess that they couldn't make it right to begin with.

The question that has been posed many times over the decades...."how much more money does it cost to make it right than it does to make it wrong?"

[rogruth]

Am I to understand that most brass locos, especially steam, were made without any real expectation of proper operation but mostly for display?

[ScaleCraft]

Been my experience in several gauges.

[ScaleCraft]

I remember those days. Parts falling off, "prototype" piping shorting everywhere. Brake shoes...wonder why Burner doesn't use them?
Sell the aura of brass to the clueless. Brass colored paint. Seriously.
In 1975 or 76, I was tasked with repairing a GEM 0-4-0 with slopeback tender by a local hobby shop. New. But apparently there was no "warranty". Valve gear had fallen off one side. Okay, I can do this.
Took the boiler off and was flabbergasted. Open frame motor had Scotch Tape over the brushed to "insulate" from the shell. The majority of the boiler was held together with green industrial epoxy, not solder....and most of it was sheet metal, not brass....and painted with this neat brass colored paint. Seriously.
Got it fixed, decided to run it in. Now, we used to flip the engines over, wedge them lightly in a "V" support, apply power, run one direction for 30 minutes or so, 15 in the other. Except it wouldn't.
The wheels stopped moving but the motor kept running. And a light grinding noise.
Okay....why...the gear mesh depended upon the weight of the entire loco on the drivers...the axle slot had nothing on the bottom plate to hold the axle gear meshed to the worm.

Add to that the experience with folks I knew with Half Zero brass (ever wonder where NWSL got it's start?), then the locals with repowering/regearing brand new 0 scale brass, then my personal experiences with #1 gauge...but you know, somebody has to buy it and keep folks like Kohs, Berlyn, Accucrap in business.

Not.
Me.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I remember those days. Parts falling off, "prototype" piping shorting everywhere. Brake shoes...wonder why Burner doesn't use them?
Sell the aura of brass to the clueless. Brass colored paint. Seriously.
In 1975 or 76, I was tasked with repairing a GEM 0-4-0 with slopeback tender by a local hobby shop. New. But apparently there was no "warranty". Valve gear had fallen off one side. Okay, I can do this.
Took the boiler off and was flabbergasted. Open frame motor had Scotch Tape over the brushed to "insulate" from the shell. The majority of the boiler was held together with green industrial epoxy, not solder....and most of it was sheet metal, not brass....and painted with this neat brass colored paint. Seriously.
Got it fixed, decided to run it in. Now, we used to flip the engines over, wedge them lightly in a "V" support, apply power, run one direction for 30 minutes or so, 15 in the other. Except it wouldn't.
The wheels stopped moving but the motor kept running. And a light grinding noise.
Okay....why...the gear mesh depended upon the weight of the entire loco on the drivers...the axle slot had nothing on the bottom plate to hold the axle gear meshed to the worm.

All of that relates an engine that had probably been dropped and then patchwork reassembled by some total git. That's not the way those were assembled and imported at all.

[rex desilets]

Some of the GEM locos were indeed poorly made.