Hobo Jungle

[rogruth]

Good to know how to adjust a framing square.
Thanks Wayne.

Now I will listen to the music and it will lead me
to more music and I may not get back to MTJ for hours.

[Mitch]

First of all, Wayne, your square is really f$%ked up 'cause none of those numbers make any sense to a born and bred true blooded American. We deal in fractions.

20 years ago, just before I got my Jet table saw, I tried building a cabinet using my Milwaukee circular and a set of cheater straight edges, that clamp to the panel and allow you to rip a perfectly straight line. Side and back panels were cut and dadoed for the bottom shelf, and when I put the bottom in, the sides didn't come together at the back. So I flipped the floor piece around, put it into the dados, and the sides didn't come together right then either. Measured the corners in an X, and found it was out of square. The friggin' sides and back weren't square either. Checked my square; way off!!. 4 pieces of cabinet grade birch ruined. Vowed it'd never happen again!

Since then, I've built the New Yankee Router table, (version 1) and the New Yankee Garage Workshop, and all of my bathroom cabinets, which are fully laminated. They all come out right, but like I said, I check every way possible before the first cut.

[rogruth]

Gotta make a few comments and then go back to the music.

Mr.Rieu always reminded me of Liberace. Classical musicians
always made fun of their music but they [R&L] laughed all
the way to the bank. Both got a lot of the general public to
listen to orchestral music of various types. That's a good thing.
They also give a lot of musicians jobs.

Now back to listening.

[webenda]

First of all, Wayne, your square is really f$%ked up 'cause none of those numbers make any sense to a born and bred true blooded American. We deal in fractions.

I guess the French* are not good at fractions.

*English bishop John Wilkins (1614-1672) invented the system of numbers used in the metric system. In 1668 he published a book called, "Universal Measure," describing the system. It was the French who developed Wilkins idea into the system of weights and measures we call "The Metric System." It is only called, "The Metric System" in the United States. In other countries it is known as the, "International System of Units (SI)."

Reference: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ ... nal+system

[MurphOnMillerAve]

First of all, Wayne, your square is really f$%ked up 'cause none of those numbers make any sense to a born and bred true blooded American. We deal in fractions.

I guess the French* are not good at fractions.

*English bishop John Wilkins (1614-1672) invented the system of numbers used in the metric system. In 1668 he published a book called, "Universal Measure," describing the system. It was the French who developed Wilkins idea into the system of weights and measures we call "The Metric System." It is only called, "The Metric System" in the United States. In other countries it is know as the, "International System of Units (SI)."

Reference: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ ... nal+system

I found it a distinct pleasure to teach The Metric System to seventh and eight graders, back in the 70's. They learned it quickly, esp. since it is based on decimals ("10" 0 like our money system.
, A dime is one tenth of a dollar; ten x $1.00 = $10.00; 100cm = etc. Real nice.

[mickeydee]

none of those numbers make any sense to a born and bred true blooded American. We deal in fractions.

Amen Mitch and I'm NOT joking. I find fractions to be far more useful and easier to understand than strings of digits before and after a period. When I taught 'shop' I used to tell my students that world wide acceptance made understanding decimals essential BUT what's easier to understand, dividing a pizza into....or this? (Fill in your own equivalents). Only by long usage did I get to understand .75, .5 and .25 without having to stop and think about what they meant in practical terms of 3/4, 1/2 and 1/4.

When I'm making models I use fractions because its so easy to switch denominator to something closer rather than the usual "a tad more than an 1/8th" but once you move away from the simple decimal equivalents as above it quickly turns into digital soup and I can't work it out without paper and pencil and even then there's a fair chance I'll screw up the decimal point.

I always swore that if I ever went into business selling something I made, the plans would be in feet, inches and fractions of an inch and I wouldn't acknowledge decimalisation and don't get me started on currency! I much preferred the old English money with its glorious historical legacy that was responsible for the numerous coins such as:- farthing, ha'penny, penny, thrupenny bit, tanner, bob, florin, half crown etc.

[rogruth]

Murph,

As long as there is control of the class by the teacher, I think that seventh and eighth graders are great to teach.
They are the reason I did NOT want to teach college. They were fun.


Mike,

I don't know about that money stuff but agree with the measuring stuff.

[MurphOnMillerAve]

none of those numbers make any sense to a born and bred true blooded American. We deal in fractions.

... what's easier to understand, dividing a pizza into..

Get a Sicilian pizza, not a round one; cut it right down the middle, the length of it; then, cut it into five rows = ten slices. That's jus' as good; besides, the Sicilians invented pizza, might as well keep it historic, too, and invite the history dept. in for a li'l cross-curricular interaction and hospitality.
Jus' sayin' .

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Metric or otherwise - don't really care as I've spent my entire career in an environment where everything is SI units and metric, yet I've also been working in wood using inches, etc. forever.

I will confess that when it gets down to smaller measurements that I readily flip the rule to the metric side to get finer resolution on a measurement - as long as I can get reliable and reproducible measurements, the system applied remains both arbitrary and useful.

[rogruth]

Rufus,

I agree. The U.S. seems to do OK using both systems together.

[mickeydee]

There's nothing 'wrong' with either system, it's the conversion process that makes me come unstuck! However the problem, as far as I'm concerned, lies with that I find fractions easy to visualize whereas their decimal equivalents are meaningless except the easy ones I mentioned.

I may be a dinosaur but I'm a happy dinosaur! Just stay out from under my feet please and I'll do my best not to tread on you! (That was my retort to those cheeky students who told me how outdated I was)

[sarge]

It's actually two different things, decimalisation and metrification; don't confuse them. Since my second career was in the engineering world and my hobbies of both motorsport and model building also embrace the precision of decimalisation, I'm very used to it.

The use of decimals is not, however, the use of the Metric system. In machining, engineering, automotive, and even in the scratchbuilding of models, we use decimal measure more often than fractional, but it's decimal inches as far as length measurement is concerned, or decimalised pounds torque or foot/pounds on a torquewrench, as examples.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

It's actually two different things, decimalisation and metrification; don't confuse them.

Very true

The use of decimals is not, however, the use of the Metric system.

Nor exclusive to or defining of....

.......even in the scratchbuilding of models, we use decimal measure more often than fractional.....

Except when it's some mad bugger of a clown that switches everybody up and goes metric in the middle of a project just because the lines on the ruler align better and more accurately to the eye,

[webenda]

However the problem, as far as I'm concerned, lies with that I find fractions easy to visualize whereas their decimal equivalents are meaningless except the easy ones I mentioned.

You are a dinosaur and an anomaly*. Many people are baffled when told 1/8 is smaller than 1/2. Their brains cease to function when faced with fractions. Decimalization seeks to make numbers less than 1 easier to understand. Try adding 1/8 + 1/2 = 5/8. Holy smokes, how did you get 5/8? Shouldn't it be 2/10? Now try 0.125 + 0.500 = 0.625. So easy.

*Meaning highly intelligent.

The term, "metric system," came about because the word for measure in France is "mètre" (from the Greek word "metron," which means measure.)
Using the decimal system suggested by Wilkins led the French to call their measurment system, "système métrique décimal" (decimal metric system) eventually being shortened to, "The Metric System."
As I pointed out before, it is not called the Metric System today, but the International System (SI.)
More informatin can be found here: => http://www.bipm.org/en/publications/si- ... /#download

[Mitch]

Obviously Wayne, none of those folks ever attended a Catholic grade school, where the nuns drilled those fractions into your head from 1/8th to 1/32nd and the decimations for each. (We did it like multiplication tables). But really, there are a few times when decimations are more accurate, although my measuring tapes show 32nds, I have one that'll give me the first few inches in 64ths if I have to get really, really close. Smaller things, I can put the Vernier caliper on (analog), and I can easily figure thousandths to the nearest fraction.

BTW, I'm goin' to the grave as a dinosaur!