TOOLS, TWO TAPS MADE IN CHINA vs. ONE MADE IN USA

[webenda]

Looking at my taps revealed a previously unknown fact--I have been paying too much for Made in China taps.
Kudos to IRWIN HANSON for making high quality tools in the USA.

[sarge]

Oh, god are those first two awful! I'd have no confidence the metallurgy or hardening is any more consistent than the thread form you show, either.

After so many bad experiences with just absolute garbage polished to a high sheen that importers bring in and the casual consumers lap up these days, I'll not buy a Chinese tool unless I'm desperate to finish a task for immediate lack. Even then, I know I will use it again and put it on my list of tools to replace with US or Euro-made when I find one.

Why Americans are so conditioned to believe cheap=value and continue to not only buy this shiite but brag about the bargain they got just baffles me. Out in my car shop, the boxes are stocked with old US made (Craftsman, S-K, Thorsen, even some Snap-on) tools in the main. I just go to shop closure sales, jumbles, fleas; the area I live in has any number of venues one can easily find good pre-Taiwanese and pre-Chinese used tools, hugely better and safer stuff to use and easy on the budget.

Oh, but Harbor Freight or Kobalt is warranted for life! Isn't that worth something? No. I don't need another POS to replace an oft-broken POS, thank you. I'm "self-warranted", having an extra box full of surplus sockets, spanners, and ratchet handles. I break something? Very very rare and invariably because I abused it. Go to the box, get a replacement out, and rethink my procedure.

On the other hand, I've had this pretty shiny PRC stuff break in amazing ways; sockets split in normal use, poorly made taps and dies stick, break off, or shed thread-forms, the ring on combination spanners snick, often resulting in blood spilt. The quality of the tool is inversely proportional to the likelihood of blood.

Same goes for my hobby tools, though a higher proportion of Euro-tooling comes into play. Still, I'll buy old Starrett taps and dies in bulk at the sales, US drillbits and resharpen them before I'll buy the current offerings.

A benefit of this approach is the idea that I'm not the only one who benefits. I buy a box of assorted hand-tools at a garage sale, I sort it and pitch the junk as a public service, then keep what I need from it, and put the rest in a pile to donate to our local high-school whose vo-tech is competing with sports for funding. Everyone wins.

[robert.]

Craftsman has turned to the dark side. They sold out to home depot. At this time most of their products are made in China.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Craftsman has turned to the dark side. They sold out to home depot.

Actually, Lowes has the Craftsman line

At this time most of their products are made in China.

Hardly a new thing - Craftsman moved production to China many years ago.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Luckily for me I have a decent stock of the taps of sizes that I use from my FiL intercepting them during transit to the dumpster from his place of employment better than a decade ago. Same on most drill bits, but replacing the smaller ones is annoying these days.

[sarge]

Yeah, you have to be careful. S-K is also owned by some importer/distributor or another and they have the unmitigated gall to stamp that proud old name on Chinese shiite. Even Snap-on is sneaking some Chinese tooling onto the trucks today.

I believe it was Black and Decker who bought the Craftsman name from Sears when they went tits up and floated to the top of the tank, and they distribute through both Lowes and Ace to name a couple. It's garbage.

On the other hand, people like Snap-on aren't doing this fiction any favours by charging absolutely stupid money for the branding and the Made in USA mark. Not when I can get a better quality screwdriver imported from Germany for pennies on the Snap-on dollar.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Even Snap-on is sneaking some Chinese tooling onto the trucks today.

Yes, they are.

I believe it was Black and Decker who bought the Craftsman name from Sears when they went tits up and floated to the top of the tank, and they distribute through both Lowes and Ace to name a couple. It's garbage.

Yes, and yes.

On the other hand, people like Snap-on aren't doing this fiction any favours by charging absolutely stupid money for the branding and the Made in USA mark. Not when I can get a better quality screwdriver imported from Germany for pennies on the Snap-on dollar.

It's only because they can get away with it.....

I'm sort of glad that I rarely need to buy any tools other than replacement drill bits in the #70-61 range. I could use a few replacement hemostats, but getting the better quality ones is going to cost. The disposable crap ones for soldering might be adequate.

[webenda]

Why Americans are so conditioned to believe cheap=value

I paid no attention to the price when I purchased these taps.
I did not care if they were made in China because I tap plastic and zinc alloys in my model trains. The materials cut easily.
The Made in USA IRWIN HANSON tap did not cost more than the Made in China taps.
The reason I examined the taps is because the screws and bolts fit so loose in the holes made by the Chinese taps.
Arrgh! Re-tapping will not fix the loose threads.

[sarge]

True pretty much across the board with Chinese imports. They don't care about the quality or even the utility. Its up to the buyer in their eyes to catch any flaws before they sign off on the run, not them. Once the container door shuts, its the buyer's problem. Meanwhile, buyers like Harbor or Lowes or Walmart still think in terms of the old model where the manufacturer has a stake in the quality of the product. Nope.

A friend of mine who is an automotive parts distributor once said to me, "If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like duck, but its from China, you're best served by inspecting the hell out of it before you believe its probably a duck and, even then, its probably a cheap duck."

[healey36]

That said, I can tear up some Peking Duck...this from a guy who's broken three breaker-bars in less than two years, one an old Snap-On (USA), one a KMC (India), and one a Kobalt (China). I'm doing something wrong with breaker-bars.

[webenda]

They don't care about the quality or even the utility. Its up to the buyer in their eyes to catch any flaws before they sign off on the run, not them. Once the container door shuts, its the buyer's problem.

I agree.

China manufacturing is capable of quality control. They have a government organization that sets standards for such things.

National Institute of Metrology, China (NIM)
(People's Republic of China)
Home: http://www.nim.ac.cn

Subject keyword(s): NMI, China, China
Founded in 1955, National Institute of Metrology (NIM) is the national metrology institute (NMI) of China, subordinate to General Administration of Quality Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine (AQSIQ), China.

Products sold to the Chinese government must conform to the China NIM standards but for consumer goods the philosophy is, "It is good enough for the average citizen." Meaning, quality is too expensive for the average consumer.

With shrink wrap cards containing the taps it is hard to do quality inspection in the hardware store. But we can turn the card over and inspect for country of manufacture. Lesson learned for me with these taps.

[HONDO74]

Question...

Are the Irwin Hanson taps HSS (high speed steel) or are they carbon steel ?

HSS should be a lot more expensive.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

That said, I can tear up some Peking Duck...

Yes, I've missed that as well,

I'm doing something wrong with breaker-bars.

You brute, you!

[webenda]

Question...

Are the Irwin Hanson taps HSS (high speed steel) or are they carbon steel ?

HSS should be a lot more expensive.

It does not say on the card; however, that information is on line.

Code: Select all

https://www.irwin.com/tools/taps-dies-sets/tap-hcs-drill-bit-hss

Translation: Tap (HCS) & Drill Bit (HSS)

[HONDO74]

Question...

Are the Irwin Hanson taps HSS (high speed steel) or are they carbon steel ?

HSS should be a lot more expensive.

It does not say on the card; however, that information is on line.

Code: Select all

https://www.irwin.com/tools/taps-dies-sets/tap-hcs-drill-bit-hss

Translation: Tap (HCS) & Drill Bit (HSS)

Irwin Hanson 80221#21 10-32NF High Speed Steel Drill Bit & Tap
https://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Hanson-802 ... B0006V6MPK

This item: Irwin Hanson 80221#21 10-32NF High Speed Steel Drill Bit & Tap
$14.90