MTH 2021 Transition Plans Revealed

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chuck
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Re: MTH 2021 Transition Plans Revealed

Postby chuck » Fri May 28, 2021 9:00 am

Wolf then used the court system to bail himself out.


It should be noted that he "tried" to bail himself out (and that's not meant to be a pun). He was hoping that lightning would strike twice and he would score a second big prize.

The way the intellectual property laws were written in both countries limited what he could bring suits forward on (aka standing). The actual IP issues had been decided in Korea and a) they were much more limited in scope (copyright infringement) and b) they were not something you could even bring forward in a US court.

So they went to court claiming theft of "trade secrets". Their main problem was they presented little or no evidence of such. Most of the claims involved similarities in design of the blue prints. The "expert witness" forgot/overlooked/didn't know that most of his statistical analysis was seriously flawed by neglecting to factor out compliance with ISO 9600 standards. To be ISO compliant the parties must adhere to the organization of how material is presented down to the numbering/labeling of parts and the organization/layouts of the design. To make matters worse/more difficult these were designs of the same scale model locomotive done by the same designer. This why the appeals court tossed out the ruling and ordered a new trial. MTH's original attorney's were not on board for a second round and Calabrese worked out a settlement.

While the original finding seemed like a victory it was actually a major defeat. It did force Lionel into bankruptcy court but that provided Lionel with protection that blocked MTH from recovering any monies until that was settled and it allowed Lionel to reorganize in a way where it wound up stronger than when it went into bankruptcy. MTH continued to hemorrhage money on development of DCS/PS-3 and had to move it's favorable operations out of Korea to China and all that entailed. There was little chance of success on a trade secrets suit and he should have known that going in.
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Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
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chuck
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Re: MTH 2021 Transition Plans Revealed

Postby chuck » Fri May 28, 2021 9:21 am

Regarding the mysterious sale of the tooling that is to be announced later thus summer I would have to conclude that this sale is to foreign buyers? If not that would put what's left of the "New MTH" at a competitive disadvantage.
Once I built a railroad, I made it run,
Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
Brother, can you spare a dime?

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Re: MTH 2021 Transition Plans Revealed

Postby rogruth » Fri May 28, 2021 9:33 am

Please don't misunderstand.
I don't hardly care what happens to MTH. I'm not buying stuff.
Some think without MTH Lionel prices will go even higher and the buyer will lose.
Less variety of stuff will be available. The catalog always looked good but how much was available?
You need to remember that this is a dying hobby anyway so who cares what a bunch of rich old guys want?

We're spending almost as much time on this as the MTH vs Lionel suit.

Some tongue in cheek in the above, some not.
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chuck
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Re: MTH 2021 Transition Plans Revealed

Postby chuck » Fri May 28, 2021 9:54 am

You need to remember that this is a dying hobby anyway so who cares what a bunch of rich old guys want?


That can be said about a lot of hobbies. Lionel once dominated the TOY business but that was back when trains were THE TOY.

There have been claims of the demise of the toy/model train business since the 1960's, aka 50-60 years. It must really be a slow death.

Almost every hobby has gone through or continues to go through this. Peoples interests change and new fads make some things hot. About the only hobbies I think are in real danger are stamp collecting (email and print it yourself postage are seriously cutting into stamp production, at least in the US) and to a lesser extent coin collecting (credit/dept cards are being used even in vending machines and parking meters). There will always be the historical stamps and coins to collect/horde but I actually liked looking out for new stamps when I would actually go to the post office.
Once I built a railroad, I made it run,
Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
Brother, can you spare a dime?

gregj410
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Re: MTH 2021 Transition Plans Revealed

Postby gregj410 » Sat May 29, 2021 7:32 am

We're spending almost as much time on this as the MTH vs Lionel suit.


I’m fascinated by how many people that I suspect never really had an interest in MTH or it’s products are so completely sucked into the whole thing. It’s like the next episode of As the World Turns.

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Re: MTH 2021 Transition Plans Revealed

Postby E7 » Sat May 29, 2021 8:13 am

rogruth wrote:We're spending almost as much time on this as the MTH vs Lionel suit.


If you followed it on OGR, it was a bloody ZOO. There were ID's that posted on that lawsuit thread that haven't been seen since. Mix in the Orange box idiots and the Purple box lunatics, and it was like a soap opera: "As the toy trains turn". And when the smoke clears, who goes out of business but K-LIne! :shock:

Never did figure out exactly what the problem was that Mikey was steamed (pun intended) over, or maybe I just didn't care enough to dig it out of all that drivel!

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Re: MTH 2021 Transition Plans Revealed

Postby Neil » Sat May 29, 2021 8:36 am

It's big news in the hobby that already has lost Weaver and K-Line. The circling the drain of a major player in the industry is news. No one fully knows the consequences, so it's natural to speculate.
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Re: MTH 2021 Transition Plans Revealed

Postby rogruth » Sat May 29, 2021 8:38 am

There are probably some that still don't speak to each other since the suit event.


After all the challengers Lionel still chuffs along.
roger

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Re: MTH 2021 Transition Plans Revealed

Postby chuck » Sat May 29, 2021 12:56 pm

After all the challengers Lionel still chuffs along.


Not bad for a 121 year old. :D
Once I built a railroad, I made it run,
Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
Brother, can you spare a dime?

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Re: MTH 2021 Transition Plans Revealed

Postby jlong » Sun May 30, 2021 11:21 am

If Mike Wolf truly was the God of O gauge he and his followers made him out to be, his company would have been indestructible. There would have been no need for lawsuits and litigation.
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Re: MTH 2021 Transition Plans Revealed

Postby jlong » Sun May 30, 2021 11:49 am

E7 wrote:If you followed it on OGR, it was a bloody ZOO. There were ID's that posted on that lawsuit thread that haven't been seen since. Mix in the Orange box idiots and the Purple box lunatics, and it was like a soap opera: "As the toy trains turn".


That for the most part was a form of pot stirring. Seeing the ultra sensitive fanboys light up like an XMAS tree. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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robert.
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Re: MTH 2021 Transition Plans Revealed

Postby robert. » Sun May 30, 2021 2:22 pm

chuck wrote:
After all the challengers Lionel still chuffs along.


Not bad for a 121 year old. :D

They had their share of failures. all companies do.
I spend entirely too many hours a day tying my shoes

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Re: MTH 2021 Transition Plans Revealed

Postby Neil » Sun May 30, 2021 2:25 pm

Failure is part of life. It's how you deal with failures that is the test. Last company standing now. That means they've had a lot of successes as well and were resilient. Not run by an egomaniac who had to be restrained by more sensible co-workers, for one thing.
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Re: MTH 2021 Transition Plans Revealed

Postby robert. » Sun May 30, 2021 6:01 pm

Egomaniac is part of the entrepreneurial gene. My other guess would be that the man is under 5 foot eight and has a Napoleon complex.
I spend entirely too many hours a day tying my shoes

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chuck
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Re: MTH 2021 Transition Plans Revealed

Postby chuck » Sun May 30, 2021 6:20 pm

They had their share of failures. all companies do.


Yes but they are shaping up to be the last man standing. Williams is still around in the form of Williams by Bachman but they are only 60 years old (and still kicking). They've kind of become the new "Marx" but with a much nicer/upscale product.

My other guess would be that the man is under 5 foot eight .....


I think you are being generous there.
Once I built a railroad, I made it run,
Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
Brother, can you spare a dime?


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