Trainz - Leaves me cold

[G3750]

Got my Monday morning e-mail from Trainz and decided to look around.

Maybe it's just me. Or maybe it's just them. But after looking at a number of items (particularly structures), my impression was "there's a lot of high priced junk" on this site.

I spotted a number of items in rough condition being offered for big money. Some new MTH items were priced over MSRP (must be the last chance mentality in play?).

What do you think?

George

[Norton]

They traded their buyers premium for high start prices. Most everything is on ebay with a slighter higher price. If you put something in your watch list the price will start coming down. After two months if it still hasn't sold it starts to be in the reasonable range but never really a deal.
One thing I found surprising recently is they have a lot of postwar parts. Searching on parts for Super O switches they had oddball parts the big repro parts dealers like Jeff Kane didn't have.
I have found my best deals these days on the forums very little on eBay and now Choo Choo is eBay only which means you have add sales tax to your bid.

Pete

[Rufus T. Firefly]

........ "there's a lot of high priced junk"...........

Start and stop right there.

Unless you are willing to wade through the swamp of rubbish to extract the periodic prize, it's just not worth your time.

Even those prizes are almost always grossly overpriced.....

[gregj410]

What do you think?

I’ve had better luck in the past with Trainz, but not so much lately. I can usually find older PS2 or TMCC locos that don’t always come up that often on eBay. More recently I bought an MTH GN R-2. The add listed the truck was repaired so thinking the truck was repaired I went for it. It shows up with an unrepairable truck or at least with my skill set. I really wanted this loco so I stepped out of my comfort zone and made the bracket from styrene. It worked perfectly and ran great so I was going to try to duplicate it in brass but only if trainz was going to heavily discount the loco. They were only willing to knock off 100$ so I reluctantly accepted. After running it a few weeks I discovered an OGR member with a PS3 version of the same loco for less. On a whim I emailed trainz and said I changed my mind will you take it back? They agreed and gave me a full refund, no questions asked. I even returned it with my repair and they said nothing about it whatsoever even though I feel I returned it in better condition than I received it. I told them I thought the add was deceitful and they were very apologetic, however they had to know that was an unacceptable repair. I’d caution buying anything from them that’s been repaired. Pics of the damage and repair.

[jlong]

They are cheap low ballers when buying collections and junk is all they can really get their hands on. They seem to think they can turn a high profit margin off it but really have no clue about the condition of the junk they are selling. Thus overpriced junk.

[G3750]

Wow! The latest offering from Trainz (showed up in my e-mail this morning) is just beyond belief.

MTH 20-3018-1 Pennsylvania K-4S 4-6-2 Steam & Tender w/PS1 #5400 LN/Box $454.40 / $899.00
This is an MTH MT-3018LP Pennsylvania K-4 4-6-2 Steam Locomotive and Tender with Protosound. Features include a high performance pittman motor, operating proto-smoke system, a remote controlled proto-coupler and is equipped ProtoSound, Constant Voltage Headlight, Operating Firebox Glow, Cab Interior Detail with Engineer Figure, Operating Marker Lights and more.

This item has been graded per TCA standards C-8: Like New. The original box is included. The instruction manual is included. Overall condition is Like New.

Condition: Like New (C-8)
Operational Status: As is
Original Box: Yes (P-6)

Manufacturer: MTH
Model Number: 20-3018-1
Years Manufactured: 1996 - 1996
Road Name: Pennsylvania
Original MSRP: $899.00

I recall seeing the MSRP as $700, not $900 back in 1996. I really wanted this locomotive, but it was way out of reach for me at the time. So today, Trainz wants roughly 60% of MSRP for a 25 year old locomotive (as is) with PS1 electronics? It's condition is listed as Like New, but they don't tell you that it runs.

I think that train has left the station. The only way I would buy it would be at $250-300 and then only as a candidate for TMCC conversion. What do you think?

George

[Rufus T. Firefly]

What do you think?

Keep shopping, just not at Trainz...just set up a search on eBay and be patient.

[v8vega]

I think your being too critical of Trainz, it's in new condition. If you want a lower price check eBay weekly ad be patient.

[Chris Webster]

Keep shopping, just not at Trainz...just set up a search on eBay and be patient.

This!

Setting up searches and having it email you when something turns up is probably the only productive way to use ebay.

[gregj410]

What do you think?

I don’t think you want it that bad, otherwise you’d be showing us your new engine

[G3750]

I think your being too critical of Trainz, it's in new condition. If you want a lower price check eBay weekly ad be patient.

Well, it may be new. It's advertised as Like New, but sold "as is". And it's a 25-year old ProtoSound 1 locomotive. What are the chances of getting the 3 clanks of death out of it? It's detail level is on a par with the Williams brass engines I already own.

I'm not in the market for this locomotive. But if I were, I'd be looking for it at $250-300 tops.

George

[Chris Webster]

I recall seeing the MSRP as $700, not $900 back in 1996. I really wanted this locomotive, but it was way out of reach for me at the time. So today, Trainz wants roughly 60% of MSRP for a 25 year old locomotive (as is) with PS1 electronics? It's condition is listed as Like New, but they don't tell you that it runs.

I think that train has left the station. The only way I would buy it would be at $250-300 and then only as a candidate for TMCC conversion. What do you think?

It's still available:
MTH 20-3018-1 Pennsylvania K-4S 4-6-2 Steam & Tender w/PS1 #5400 LN/Box
The bargain-hunters must not have seen it yet.

[Chris Webster]

I was reading the thread over on NK about MTH All-Door Boxcars. A poster claims that Brad's Trains (bmartz-1991) is buying stuff from Trainz dot com and then relisting it (& letting it sit) on ebay for twice what he paid Trainz. I think the NK poster is correct -- all the 2-rail locomotives bmartz-1991 currently has on ebay are models I think I recall recently seeing on trainz's site.

This strikes me as a really weird business model -- bmartz first buys stuff from Trainz, then has to create listings on ebay for the same items, then waits for something to sell, and then has to pack it up and ship it. Bmartz then gives ~25% of the selling price to ebay. Roughly ~50% to ~55% of the selling price was spent buying the item from Trainz, so bmartz is doing a lot of work just to earn a maximum of 20-25% on low-dollar items.... and that's not even considering the cost of the capital bmartz has tied up in bmartz's inventory.

Meanwhile the S&P is up 20.54% year-to-date.... bmartz would be ahead if they had just deposited their capital in a low-cost index fun and they would not have had to do any work to have earned that return.

I also wonder if there might be an algorithm feedback problem here for bmartz. TrainZ seems to price a lot of their stuff automatically using a database of past sales; I assume their pricing database uses data from their own website and data scraped from ebay. I'm thinking that each time bmartz resells a Trainz item on ebay, bmartz is causing the prices in Trainz's database to artificially inflate.

For example, assume Trainz's database has the prices of 9 individual sales of a particular item, let's say a Weaver Lehigh Valley RS3. The first 8 sales have an average selling price of $100. The 9th sale is when TrainZ uses their price database to sel one to Bmartz for $100.... Bmartz then (eventually) sells it on ebay for twice as much ($200) and Trainz adds that sale to their database. Trainz's software automatically crunches the numbers, and the next LV RS3 they sell will be offered for $110.

[Norton]

I have had generally good luck with Trainz. Early on when they first started doing auctions in the pre buyers premium days that had low prices but sometimes the descriptions were off. A few worse than described and few better like an item described as not working, worked perfectly when I got it. Not everying is overpriced. I just got a Weaver RPO for 50 bucks. Lionel shows the same model at 170!!!. Also a set of Weaver Hiawatha cars with interiors for 350. 70 bucks a metal car vs Lionel's 200+ for plastic.
As for bmartz, he has been doing this for a while. I noticed it at Choo Choo Auctions a few years ago. He would hover at the website when items were first listed, about 5PM every evening and place a bid. That would end the buy it now which in many cases was already low. He may try to snipe at the end if there were other bidders but then resell at double the price if he won. I suspect he is buying stuff at the other sites like OGR if the price is low enough.

Pete

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I have had generally good luck with Trainz. .............. Not everying is overpriced.

True, and there are a good number of folks swooping in on those items.