American Flyer misinformation

[Roy]

I think it's nice that TCA Western is trying to post toy train manufacturer information online. Here's their American Flyer page:

http://www.tcawestern.org/af.htm

However, I've run across some mistakes. For example, it says the 1946 model 332 Northern has a Pull-mor motor. Flyer introduced the trademark Pull-mor for their traction tires, but they weren't introduced until 1953. No motors were referred to as Pull-mor until Lionel MPC, and then the term was applied to O and O27 locomotives. Further, the site said the '46 332 had red glowing smoke, which also didn't appear until later.

Perhaps, we can help American Flyer enthusiasts and TCA Western, by pointing out the factual errors here. What do you think?

[chuck]

I think it's a good idea. I have no idea how the folks providing the original information will receive it. You (Royal You which means "Us") might want to have a flame suit at the ready in case it isn't received well. Remember, "No good deed goes unpunished".

[Roy]

If we get significant contributions here, we could simply give TCA Western a link to our efforts. We can post text, photos, links and pointers to other technical and historic resources right here. The important thing, is getting the facts straight. And, there are a lot of interesting facts about the design and manufacture of toy trains.

[chuck]

I agree wholeheartedly. There is a lot of unchecked/unverified material on the net and a lot of people just accept it.

[ScaleCraft]

I agree wholeheartedly. There is a lot of unchecked/unverified material on the net and a lot of people just accept it.

WHAT!?!?!?!? You mean all that stuff on the 'net that any clueless yay-who can out up isn't 100% RIGHT 100% of the time?

Oh, Lord, what shall we do?

This just rattles the foundations of my beliefs. All those evilbait listings I put up....they're no really serious?

Now I'm despondent. I shall pine away. Torpedoed. Shot down.

snicker.

[Roy]

Here's some text from the above Flyer page:

"In 1946 the American Flyer #332 Union Pacific die-cast 'S' gauge locomotive was introduced. This Northern style locomotive had a 4-8-4 wheel arrangement with 4 leading, 8 driving, and 4 trailing wheels. It was accompanied by a 12 wheel oil type tender. At 21½" long, it was the longest locomotive and tender combination ever made by American Flyer. It used a worm-drive Pull-mor motor, featured Red Glowing Smoke and choo-choo sound. Eventually, there would be 8 models of the Northern 4-8-4 produced by Gilbert. One modification made was the inclusion of a remote control steam Whistle. Although it carried the Union Pacific herald, it was patterned after engines employed by the Great Northern R.R. and New York City also had these but called them Niagaras. The American Flyer Northern (33x series) is modeled after a specific Union Pacific Locomotive. It would remain in the catalogue through 1957 with both AC and DC versions being made, and original selling prices in the range of $35."

- Although S gauge was new in 1946, the Northern was built as a 3/16" O gauge model from 1939.

- The tender was a coal type, not an oil type.

- The 1946 model had Union Pacific lettering, and no railroad herald.

- The Northern ran through 1960, not 1957.

Yada, yada. It might be easier to start from scratch.

[HONDO74]

And these were all toys made for children right. Who would have thought that this would have caused confusion for older children later in life

[healey36]

I would agree that whoever wrote that, they did a real disservice to TCA.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Who would have thought that this would have caused confusion for older children later in life

Given the prevalence for senility, it seems that this should be................I forgot.

[Roy]

The prototype for American Flyer's Northern is the U.P. FEF-1 class, from 1937:



Full size photo: https://www.steamlocomotive.com/whyte/4-8-4/USA/photos/up806-full.jpg

[Roy]

Here's a website with some photos of American Flyer S gauge Northerns:

https://thegilbertgallery.org/Engine%20Gallery/engines-Northern.html

At one time, I had a 1948 model 332 with a DC motor. It had black running boards, and American Flyer Lines lettering on the tender. In 1949, Flyer started lining the running boards in white, and lettering the tenders American Flyer in a block typeface. Later, the cabs were stamped 332AC or 332DC.

1948 was the first year smoke and choo-choo were in the boiler. Besides the smoke fluid filler on the tender, the 1947 and 1948 model Northerns were similar looking. I think 1948 was the first year for the DC motors. Flyer made both AC and DC models, until about 1952.

[Robert Bubeck]

The American Flyer summary (It is just a brief summary.) cited above appears to have been written by someone who emphasizes 'Chicago' Flyer in their collecting. The AFMCo. segment reads OK, but as pointed out in this thread, the Gilbert portion has a number of errors. It is not uncommon for enthusiasts on one period to be a bit sketchy about the other. Aside from the cited Northern problems, there are other difficulties (e.g., a prewar die cast No. 524 0 gauge heavyweight being grouped with five postwar S gauge Bakelite and plastic versions, a 1946 die cast Virginian hopper fitted with knuckle couplers, some set compositions, etc.). The portion devoted to the Wrather period and the demise of the A. C. Gilbert Co. could use some sprucing up, too (See: https://www.eliwhitney.org/7/museum/-gi ... -october-6).

Someone knowledgeable could edit the corrections in about an hour. One could even consult a copy of TM American Flyer Guide to S Gauge Trains. Unfortunately, neither contact information for the website nor the author is given, and one does not wish to jump in and give offense to a contributor who was trying to do a good deed.

Bob

[ScaleCraft]

No good deed goes unpunished, right?

When I wrote for Clambake, reviews, took at least a week. I KNEW what I was doing. Current, voltage, drawbar pull, wheel gauges, then I took the silly things apart right down to the worm. Bare frame. Photos and notes.

And still, without fail, the "ex-spurts" came out of the woodwork with absolutely no clue and challenged me.

You can imagine if I wrote a review like another Clambake publication did on the same engine I reviewed, and simply took the data from the manufacturer and published it as fact. All the things that would plug into the new socket...and when I called the writer, and asked him if he actually plugged any of that in...and he admitted they had none of those items...and was surprised when he found out only ONE of them existed, the rest were "announced"...and gear ratio...scale top speed...had no clue. Or reversed signal on optical chuff triggers...requiring components to be soldered to the socket board to invert signal so it would, like, work with available sound systems.

You MUST know your subject matter completely, every available variation, and be prepared to defend your dissertation.

So there is that.

But this one, yeah, wrong couplers, possibly trucks....but I have done that with my stuff when needed. Box couplers and pre-war trucks swapped out for PT-1's and knuckles, MPC 6464 sized boxcars, drill out the rivets, pull the plastic trucks, install PT-1's with knuckles that actually hold. Gotta be careful with verbiage attached to photos, as a lot of this ain't as delivered, but works for me.

You would think that a person who seems to be a legend in his own mind and self-proclaimed ex-spurt on Flyer would have a broader scope of knowledge.

Then there are the oddities, worthy of argument, on vent hole placement in Lionel tenders.

[Roy]

Did Flyer make a 330 Northern, without smoke and choo-choo? I remember having a 310 K-5, and a 321 Hudson. The 310 actually had the smoke and choo-choo, when I got it. I'm pretty sure the 321 had a hole in it's coal pile, even though the tender was empty.

Did Gilbert even make the Northern, in 1946? I can't remember ever seeing a photo of a '46 model.

[healey36]

My 310 has neither smoke or chop-chop, but it does have those brass buttons on the underside.