Model Train Journal

Considering how negative about Lionel some of the members are, I was surprised to see this.

https://o-gaugeforum.com/thread/1474/fe ... refer-poll

Small sample of 17 voting, but still a shockeroo....

Interesting. I am surprised with the comments on momentum (and I suppose BEMF) since the Boy Genius patented the open use thereof.

Burning up PS-3 if in consist? Fun!

And several opposing views on programming of Mikey's ShXt. Some can't find an engine, hard to program....but others it's a snap.

I will say, my buddy had All-Trol conventional out of a ZW, they'd have a meet at his place, connect up DCS so folks could run....and after 20 minutes of trying to program, find, link, whatever they went back to conventional.

That is one of the reasons we gutted all the DCS stuff and put in a Dallee or QSI reversing unit. simple, reliable, first time every time.

Surprisingly, they aren't debating each other (yet). Most are staying on topic and listing their personal pros and cons. The mother of all forums would be lit up like an XMAS tree by now with quoting and debating.

So Neil, are you going to turn in your order for the MTH TRUMP TRAIN.

Looks like the boys over on the O Gauge Forum are all in for one.

Coming Soon The Trump Train
https://o-gaugeforum.com/thread/1462/co ... rump-train

Think I'll pass on any train related to Presidents, future Presidents or past. Might make an exception for one Democrat (FDR) and one Republican (Lincoln).

That's quite a thread over there. Is that correct? Legacy: DCS is 4:1?

I'm still back here in the horse-and-buggy era running TMCC. Of course, that's better than being in the ultra-buggy era (pun intended) with DCS!

George

Just saw this poll on OGF. Interesting. It’s 5:1 at this point.

The sample size is small of course, but the extreme skewing to Legacy over DCS seems to say something about how users see the overall pluses of the former over the latter.

Some known troublemakers have recently joined that forum and may be adding to the results in favor of Legacy .

DCS is such a kludge and so unpredictable that anyone who seriously uses both knows which system is more reliable and easier to implement. All the features in the world don't matter if it's not predictable/reliable.

Someone who clearly does not understand that in the mid-1990s DCC was not a viable three rail system has written a long complaint about Lionel's development of the system and how they screwed the hobby. Right. Amazing how not knowing the facts gets you down some inaccurate, misleading pathways. This guy is clearly unfamiliar with the last five years of Lionel production of LC and LC+, which are Legacy-lite.

This is from a guy who only uses DCS. Probably still has a hand cranked starter on his car too.

"Lionel has always been about Lionel. They are only interested in promoting their products so creating a proprietary system locks the hobbyist into buying from Lionel. There has been bad blood between Lionel and MTH almost from the beginning of MTH. They had a short honeymoon period before their falling out so it makes sense that MTH tried to out do Lionel by creating their own system that was capable of exclusively running their own engines but could run TMCC engines as well. I think O gauge has always had this "Buy exclusively from us" attitude.

The NMRA has been a big influence in the 2 rail scale world and an advocate for compatibility of products from different manufacturers. Plus, when Lenz invented DCC he made it available to all manufacturers. Lionel would never do such a thing. Lionel did eventually make TMCC available to other manufacturers but Legacy is proprietary.

I don't know about Lionel but MTH's PS2 and PS3 are DCC compatible. "

Apparently he isn't aware of the fact that DCC doesn't work on three rail layouts as presently wired, only two rail. Oh well, ignorance is some sort of bliss.

Neil wrote:
This is from a guy who only uses DCS. Probably still has a hand cranked starter on his car too.

"Lionel has always been about Lionel. They are only interested in promoting their products so creating a proprietary system locks the hobbyist into buying from Lionel. There has been bad blood between Lionel and MTH almost from the beginning of MTH. They had a short honeymoon period before their falling out so it makes sense that MTH tried to out do Lionel by creating their own system that was capable of exclusively running their own engines but could run TMCC engines as well. I think O gauge has always had this "Buy exclusively from us" attitude.

The NMRA has been a big influence in the 2 rail scale world and an advocate for compatibility of products from different manufacturers. Plus, when Lenz invented DCC he made it available to all manufacturers. Lionel would never do such a thing. Lionel did eventually make TMCC available to other manufacturers but Legacy is proprietary.

I don't know about Lionel but MTH's PS2 and PS3 are DCC compatible. "

Apparently he isn't aware of the fact that DCC doesn't work on three rail layouts as presently wired, only two rail. Oh well, ignorance is some sort of bliss.

DCS is just as proprietary today as it was when it was first introduced. In fact Lionel attempted to make Legacy able to access DCS functions but MTH said NO.

I think there is a subset of DCS users who just assume that it's the rule to get "No Train to Enter" and similar cockamamie messages with a command system. . They innocently believe Legacy is equally flaky and just don't know any better because DCS is the only system they've used. They have no idea that DCC hasn't always been as user friendly as it is now, and that ain't all that friendly. And they don't know the history of TMCC's development. That Railsounds was the first decent sound system in O gauge, etc. Or MTH"s history of litigating whether the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, because they invented that. It's a strange old world and all sorts of misinformation is propagated on the web.

And most ominously for the younger users, they have no idea that if and when MTH is sold or disappears, DCS may well disappear with it. No one is going to want that dog's breakfast for their locos.

The poll has gone from 4 to 1 to 5 to 1. Did you do that when you joined, George? Shame on you.

jlong wrote:The poll has gone from 4 to 1 to 5 to 1. Did you do that when you joined, George? Shame on you.

Oops.

Who? Me?



George

Here's some sobering news for DCS fans. Apparently Mike Wolf is now 60 years old. I'm sure he has plenty of good years left, but I don't think he wants to spend them running MTH and living in Columbia MD. When he sells or gets tired of working, it will be a quick death for DCS is my guess.

Neil wrote:Here's some sobering news for DCS fans. Apparently Mike Wolf is now 60 years old. I'm sure he has plenty of good years left, but I don't think he wants to spend them running MTH and living in Columbia MD. When he sells or gets tired of working, it will be a quick death for DCS is my guess.

I would assume Mike would sell the rights to DCS, if not the trains themselves. There are enough DCS engines out there for someone else to support them by at least continuing offering the upgrade kits and doing repairs much like 3rd Rail did taking over Electric Railroad.

This could actually be an opportunity for DCS to surpass Legacy. With MTH gone there is no reason a new company could not expand its capabilities. Unlike ElectricRR where Lionel still controls what it can do.

Pete

"This could actually be an opportunity for DCS to surpass Legacy."

I think you are dreaming Pete. DCS is a kludge with no substantial market penetration. It's completely restricted to MTH locos. It only attracts technophiles such as yourself. Most hobbyists just want something simple that is reliable and convenient. That ain't DCS. Not to mention market share. For every PS3 loco that is sold by MTH, Lionel probably sells 100 LionChief locos in sets. DCS is very small potatoes compared with LionChief, LC+, Legacy, taken together, much less DCC.

I'm sure someone will make PS3 upgrades, as you suggest, but it's going to be a fringe undertaking that someone does out of love, not the ability to make money. Indeed, it would not surprise me if what happens when MTH passes from the scene, is that PS2 and PS3 locos that need new electronics receive the equivalent of LC or LC+ upgrades instead, by a yet to exist company. Will be dirt cheap compared with 200-300 dollars for PS3 replacements. Probably 1/3 or 1/2 the cost at most.