Standard Practice? SILVER PRR T1 #1 of 650

[E7]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Williams-5506- ... Sw7UBdqQul

A Williams PRR T1 #1 of 650. Striking model, but I don't think there were any silver painted T1's in the real world. Was it standard practice for Williams to do there first piece in silver?

[HONDO74]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Williams-5506-Brass-Crown-Edition-PRR-T1-Steam-Locomotive-Scale-SIze-1-of-650/312808398034?hash=item48d4d55cd2:g:11wAAOSw7UBdqQul

A Williams PRR T1 #1 of 650. Striking model, but I don't think there were any silver painted T1's in the real world. Was it standard practice for Williams to do there first piece in silver?

PRR T1 #6110, one of the two prototypes of Class T1.

[chuck]

According to Staufer's "Pennsy Power", all T-1's were painted in standard "Brunswick" DGLE, page 218. There was 8500 pounds of aluminum castings for the streamlining shrouds. These would look "silver" until actually painted.

[HONDO74]

There was 8500 pounds of aluminum castings for the streamlining shrouds. These would look "silver" until actually painted.

The 2 prototypes were built in 1942. I wonder how they managed to acquire that much aluminum during the war ?

[chuck]

The 2 prototypes were built in 1942. I wonder how they managed to acquire that much aluminum during the war ?

We didn't officially enter the war until Dec 1941. I can't find when the first two prototypes were actually delivered other than 1942. One citation from a Baldwin publication in Dec 1942 was in regards to the extensive testing conducted throughout 1942. There were no others built/delivered till after the war.

Given the time it takes to build a prototype. I suspect they had the materials before the war declaration and the restrictions on materials were in place.

[rogruth]

I agree with Chuck based on long ago reading. So long ago I just can't remember my sources.
Williams made S2 locos in "Brunswick" green, Tuscan red and silver. PRR only made one in
its standard loco color.

My uncle worked for the PRR for @ 50 years and claimed that passenger locos were painted
green and freight and switcher locos were painted black. I have never seen anything to
verify this. I asked a PRR veteran at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania about this and
he said he had also heard this but could not verify.
I also understand that the painting of cab roofs and tender decks oxide red varied by where
the loco was based. I actually never saw that on an in use loco and was told that it didn't
last long.
Sorry for the digression.

[chuck]

Roger said:

Williams made S2 locos in "Brunswick" green, Tuscan red and silver. PRR only made one in
its standard loco color.

Thanks for tripping the old long term memory bank. I'm going through some old CTT magazines looking for the Williams ads from around early 1990's. I THINK this was around the time of the Williams/Wolf/Samhongsa breakup. Williams had been importing trains made by Samhongsa and there was a dispute over the price. Williams bowed out and had another vendor make the trains. I think the Williams S-2 and T-1 were both offered as limited edition runs and were offered in Tuscan Red, DGLE and silver. Only DGLE was prototypical.

As far as I can find, DGLE was used on all Pennsylvania steam engines. DGLE is a shiny black when first applied. There is an unusual green tint/cast because of the presence of copper salts added to the paint. The sulfur from the burning coal would interact with the copper salts and turn green. The passenger loco's took on the greenish cast we call "Brunswick green" as the soot was routinely washed away. The freight engines looked flat black because of all the accumulated soot.

[E7]

My real question was did Williams paint all the number 1 locos in their limited run brass editions silver? I'm not much for fantasy paint jobs, but that T1 looks pretty striking in that color!

I have some builders photos of T1's, but they are all black and white. The locos all definitely have dark paint jobs be it black or DGLE.

I don't know the timing, but Sunset took over the Williams S2 project, and it became Sunset's second run of S2's, which had less detail than the first run, which was before the "Third Rail" thing.

All the models of T1's that I have seen, have been painted black.

[chuck]

Can't find all of the magazines from that time, I was picking them up as back issues at train shows. There was an add from Samhongsa in the Dec 1991 issue of CTT that announced that Williams was no longer their client and that the last locomotive Samhongsa did for Williams was the camelback. They explicitly stated that the Williams S2, T1 and GG1's were NOT Samhongsa products and that they (Samhongsa) were now associated with Weaver under the "Gold Line" label. Previous issue of CTT had a full page Weaver ad featuring the T1. It was beautifully detailed and the copy emphasized the association with Samhongsa as well as QSI electronics and sound. When you compare that image to the photo's of the eBay offering the Weaver engine is by far the better model.

I'm sorry that I can't definitively answer your question about the silver paint. I suspect the answer is in one of the missing/misplaced issues or even more likely scattered somewhere in them in "What's New/product announcements" or ads from a major dealer and not the importer.

[E7]

Chuck,

"I don't know." is a perfectly legitimate answer, and I appreciate your time and effort answering. Thanks!

I didn't get re-interested in trains until right around 2000 or so. Floundered around in HO a couple years and then went O 2 Rail. Sam was pretty much gone by the time I started looking for stuff. It was a long slow learning curve and I am still learning things!

As for the silver T1, it looks good (opinion) in that color, correct or not.

I agree that the Weaver versions are great looking engines.

Rich

[chuck]

I have a partial eidetic memory, especially when it comes to images. I can see the ad in my minds eye. I just can't figure out where I saw it.

I KNOW I didn't see at the time it was run because I did not seriously get back into "O" until 1994. To play "catch up" I did go back and pick up as much info as I could buying back issues of CTT and OGRR and then reading them. The ads were some of the most interesting aspects of these old publications. I was shocked at how much different stuff was around in those days, e.g. track systems, detail parts, etc. Looking back through the three years of 1990-1992 this morning was kind of fun. I'd forgotten about a lot of this stuff and I was also bemused by the cries of despair on the imminent doom of the hobby, even back then. We as a hobby have nothing on chicken little worrying about the sky falling.

One thing I did find was that the early Williams ad for the T-1 was for the product that Samhongsa eventually made for Weaver. The early Williams ads for the proposed Samhongsa version explicitly stated prototypical paint and markings. It was also much more expensive than the one they eventually did produce after their relationship with Samhongsa fell apart in early 1991. BTW, ROW also did a T1 around thus time and I think one of the other brass importers did as well.

I could almost swear that the Williams engine being offered on eBay was offered in DGLE, Tuscan, and Silver. Full page spread in color. It might even have been a Williams brochure/catalog/. I think this was done to tie into 80 foot aluminum passenger cars and heavyweights they were selling at the time. These included smooth sided PRR Tuscan cars as well as green Pullman heavyweights (ABS) and fluted aluminum streamliners.

[E7]

My first purchase in "O" was similar, in that I bought a collection of "O Scale News 48/ft". I wanted to know what was "out there" in the way of "O" product, and it turned out to be a very good decision, as I found out a lot of what I wanted had been produced at one time or another. I had actually started out in HO, but I ran into I guy I worked with at a train show, and saw his "O" layout, and decided that was the way to go. I sold the small amount of HO I had and have never looked back

[HONDO74]

I have all the CTT issues from the beginning (minus the first one) up to 2002 when I stopped buying magazines.

The first Williams I bought was a blow out set From one of the advertisers. Might have been Trainworld. A pair of AA sharks with the brass four car freights that were a copy of the prewar Lionel Scale models. All I wanted was the Brass cars. Got the whole set for half of what the 4 brass cars would cost.

There were 2 different tank cars. One Shell and the other Sunoco. One was a separate sale along with a N5 caboose. Got both of those. Not the greatest brass cars but good enough for me. Then I bought the Williams brass PRR E-6 4-4-2 Atlantic and the PRR B6sb 0-6-0. I believe all the brass that I bought was made by Samhongsa. Except for 2 additional freight cars I got from 3rd rail.

Later I bought another blowout set of Missouri Pacific F7s ABA with sounds in the B unit. Used the power unit from the shark for the dummy A mopac and sold the dummy AA sharks.

[2railjon]

Sunset Models as built and modified.

[2railjon]

Here’s a Wiiliam’s with a ridiculous silver nose and odd green paint from the factory on EBay.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 3340511723