Another casualty of the MTH closure

[jlong]

Unless of course you have 10 million in cash to deal in huge volume and offer big discounts. Only then can you earn a living off it. That's just how the Charlie Ros and Trainworlds operate.

I know that TrainZ is not your favorite vendor, but you should really check out how much volume they're doing just on ebay:
Trainz - Sold Items, most recent first

Open up that link some evening, keep the page open and then reload it after about 15 minutes -- you'll see how many items they've sold in that time period. Tonight, they've sold 50 items in the last 54 minutes, just thru ebay -- they are also selling thru their own website.

Like I said in another post, ERR by 3rd rail is making a butt load of money selling up grade kits for the junk MTH being dumped on ebay.

[MartyE]

The real tragedy of this will be if there is a buyer and no one is saying, the small guys that are closing because they aren't in "the know" and then after the 1st of the year Mike jumps out of a cake and yells surprise, just kidding about closing.

[Neil]

My conviction at 95% certainty is there is no buyer. In the Trainworld virtual York, one of the two MTH guys, either Rich or Andy made a bitter joke about people contributing to the Go Fund Me or Kick Starter or something or the other. There is no money to keep MTH running apparently. Either too much debt or some combination of that and no available capital to continue.

[G3750]

My conviction at 95% certainty is there is no buyer. In the Trainworld virtual York, one of the two MTH guys, either Rich or Andy made a bitter joke about people contributing to the Go Fund Me or Kick Starter or something or the other. There is no money to keep MTH running apparently. Either too much debt or some combination of that and no available capital to continue.

I agree. We will probably never know for sure, but an audit would probably tell a less than happy tale.

George

[KeithL]

I think it’s sad but true that the only valuable asset that MTH has (“had,” actually) as they wind down is the building in Columbia, MD. And the building was sold last April.

[healey36]

I suspect there are a few other assets with value, the owner is just asking far too much for them. However, as Jerry Calabrese once said of Lionel, the most valuable asset by far is the brand.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

........the only valuable asset that MTH has (“had,” actually) as they wind down is the building in Columbia, MD. And the building was sold last April.

And, it's real value was actually unknown as what real equity MTH might have had in that property is also unknown.

[Neil]

So is Lionel going to make available LionChief or LionChief + upgrades for failing PS1 through PS3 locos? One way of shifting customer loyalty to the Lionel product line it would seem to me. Won't significantly cannibalize Lionel new loco sales I'd think. I don't have much need since almost everything I own is TMCC or LionChief something or the other. I would consider it for a few MTH locos I still have that are PS1 or PS3 and a handful of conventional locos.

[healey36]

I doubt there will be any offer of conversion kits by Lionel. Likely too complicated for the RTR crowd to install on their own, resulting in a possible product support nightmare ongoing. Lionel is probably hoping all of the MTH gear just withers and dies.

I haven’t seen anything in a Lionel catalog that appeals to me for years. I suspect that will continue.

[rogruth]

I see a lot that appeals to me but I don't have that much money to spend on trains, toys or such.
My eife and I are retired school teachers. We are not starving but we don't have a lot of surplus money around.

[G3750]

........the only valuable asset that MTH has (“had,” actually) as they wind down is the building in Columbia, MD. And the building was sold last April.

And, it's real value was actually unknown as what real equity MTH might have had in that property is also unknown.

I don't think there's much lasting value to the MTH brand.

George

[G3750]

I doubt there will be any offer of conversion kits by Lionel. Likely too complicated for the RTR crowd to install on their own, resulting in a possible product support nightmare ongoing. Lionel is probably hoping all of the MTH gear just withers and dies.

I think you're right, Paul. If orphaned PS1/PS2/PS3 locomotive owners have any path at all, it's TMCC via the ERR boards. No reason for Lionel to open up the LionChief 2.0, 2.0+ any of that product line up to them. 3rd Rail still has to buy TMCC boards from Lionel, keeping the product gravy train running. Ultimately, those engines are being added to the TMCC/Legacy fold.

I haven’t seen anything in a Lionel catalog that appeals to me for years. I suspect that will continue.

I did pre-order the Pennsy E7s, but that's the first time I've ever bought a new locomotive from Lionel that wasn't a blow-out. For the most part, I agree with you. Most of the high-end stuff is waay out of my price range. If I wasn't working, I would have skipped this, too.

George

[healey36]

Most of the high-end stuff is waay out of my price range. If I wasn't working, I would have skipped this, too.

George

Same here, George, and I'm not working, lol. I worry that, being nearly the last game in town for RTR, Lionel prices will drive northward. I sure as heck would hate to see a return to the Kuhn era, a time when the emphasis was on $1500 locomotives. Hopefully the progress they've made at the opposite end of the market will retain their interest.

My interest in MTH was primarily for their tin gear and the accessories. With that market in sharp decline and Lionel showing no inclination to go there, I've probably bought the last of the new stuff of interest (to me).

[G3750]

Most of the high-end stuff is waay out of my price range. If I wasn't working, I would have skipped this, too.

George

Same here, George, and I'm not working, lol. I worry that, being nearly the last game in town for RTR, Lionel prices will drive northward. I sure as heck would hate to see a return to the Kuhn era, a time when the emphasis was on $1500 locomotives. Hopefully the progress they've made at the opposite end of the market will retain their interest.

My interest in MTH was primarily for their tin gear and the accessories. With that market in sharp decline and Lionel showing no inclination to go there, I've probably bought the last of the new stuff of interest (to me).

Unfortunately, I don't see Lionel changing their direction away from the high-priced locomotives. At this point, it's pretty much a race to the bottom for us geezers. At the same time, I don't see them abandoning the other end of the market, either. They sell a TON of LC+ sets at Christmas. And that is what's really keeping them afloat, I think.

George

[chuck]

LC 2 Plus allows you maximum control options at a reasonable price point. You do not have the huge selection of product that the Vision Line/Legacy offers but you don't have the huge price either. I was very pleasantly surprised at the Lion Chief Plus locomotive I recently acquired for around $250. It's scale, has a decent sound system and I can run it from my phone (this is a LC + not an LC 2 +. Looking at the catalog offerings these seem to be taking over what used to be a lot of the "traditional" market BUT you can find some of the smaller/older scale models which suits me fine.

I don't think that converting a PS-1 or PS-2 or even a PS-3 to LC is really going to work. I suspect that the internal electrical loads on an MTH designed engine will be too much for the LC boards to handle. This would be similar to the issues that Lionel ran into when it first introduced Legacy and considered making upgrade boards. The initial test boards were not holding up well because Legacy was driving stuff too hard and the internals of the older loco's wasn't designed for that. If you want to "fix" and MTH engine either go with ERR boards for command of buy solid state E-units for conventional. BTW, I suspect it's easier to convert the older PS-1 loco's than it will be to do the newer stuff. Too much integrated electronics to deal with. I kind of chuckled at the early PS-2 "upgrade" kits where you basically gutted the engine down to the frame and replaced EVERYTHING else (couplers, lights, speakers, ...). Pretty much everything except the primary drive train. I was asked to do a couple for a LHS but passed on it when I saw how much work was involved. It actually made some of the TMCC upgrades look simple. I liked a lot of the early MTH loco's because of the design work that went into the drive train. Good motors, good gears. Electronics, not so good!