TMCC Upgrade Path in Jeopardy

[webenda]

You wish to avoid OGR you can read Howard Hitchcock's letter here:> http://www.lionel.com/articles/ELECTRIC-RAILROAD

I love this part:

"2. Many of you have reached out to express your feelings.

- Every letter received has been read and fortunately, the majority were very professional, and on topic. Those that weren’t were simply ignored.

- Please know, efforts to contact any Lionel employee you can find digitally to voice your frustration only results in you wasting your time."

Lionel will not waste their time talking to idiots.

[G3750]

I think there is a relatively benign way of looking at what happened. One of Lionel's staffers gave the folks at York a heads up that ERR was going to close. Not exactly a public announcement to the world. The vast majority of Lionel's customers buy starter sets and LC/LC+ stuff. TMCC folks (like me) are a small but important minority constituency. They probably thought it wouldn't be a big deal.

That's certainly a possibility, but it does seem a bit clumsy that Lionel was surprised, especially given that ERR is essentially their company.

It's possible that no one thought it would cause much public consternation, and that they were already working on a plan for upgrades of some sort (TMCC, Legacy, Bluetooth, LC, LC+). Indeed, I'd put my money on an inexpensive Bluetooth upgrade that uses their app/Universal Remote. That's what Hitchcock said in his lette, more or less. I think this just was a case of them not realizing exactly how much blowback there might be while they work on the ultimate successor to ERR. They probably figured they had at least 6-12 months inventory left before this hit the fan. It's probably not going to be TMCC as the upgrade in the long run, simply because of lack of availability of parts down the road. It's going to be Legacy, Bluetooth or LC in the longer run. Or a box that let's you communicate with LC/LC+ locos using the cab-1/cab-2.

It's my experience after 36 years in IT, that upgrade paths, particularly those that are well thought out and communicated, make for happy customers. That's just good business. Customers who are blindsided tend to become irate, and for good reason.

That said, I find it astonishing the number of Chicken Littles we have in this hobby, as well as people who think all corporations/businesses are evil and only looking out for their own interests without considering the customer. That's suicide and stupid for a business, and it's amazing to me that so many people got their panties wildly in a twist about something that is temporary and not likely going to be a game changer. Too many cranky old men with too much time on their hands, and lots of grievances in life? .

I wrote a polite e-mail to Lionel asking them find a way to continue TMCC. There are those who do think all corporations / businesses are evil (I am not one of them). Unfortunately, the mishandling of this type of event tends to support their worst fears.

I hope Lionel finds a way to deal with this quickly and fairly.

George

[jlong]

All Notch six did was post to a beehive of gossip queens. That was Neil's point. Many of the comments on OGR imply Lionel is snuffing ERR as an incentive to ditch aging TMCC engines for new product which is 2000 proof bullcrap. I would count on ERR falling back into the hands of a cottage industry. The talent pool is out there and so is the demand. We have a wealth of cottage industries supplying reproduction parts and service manuals for pre and postwar trains simply because it isn't feasible for Lionel to supply those parts and information. I see ERR going the same way. Turning ERR over to a cottage industry is probably a good thing. It would free up Lionel to focus on new technology while the new owners of ERR to focus on improving ERR.

[MartyE]

Hi Guys

The problem with the announcement was no other explanation. When Dave Olson announced this at the Legacy meeting, there was no path for continuing ERR.

While many of the folks had their ideas as why they were ending ERR, it was simple business decision due to costs of maintaining the line for the consumer. Simply put not enough were being sold to justify the cost. Understandable, but at the same time with closing of the West Coast office, most of the overhead would be eliminated.

You can call it "sky is falling mentality" but many folks use these upgrades to resurrect, upgrade, or repair locomotives. The fact that these would still be available to Atlas, 3rd Rail, and other manufacturers had everyone wondering why not the end consumer. Derek asked to let Lionel know in an email how folks felt. Many just used the post to gripe about everything. The good news is a lot of folks wrote and Lionel took notice enough to look towards a 3rd part solution.

On the following thread folks are still griping instead of waiting and seeing what comes next. That to me is a little more annoying.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

..................folks are still griping instead of waiting and seeing what comes next.

You were expecting anything other than that from the denizens of OGR? Griping and complaining is what they do best.

[MartyE]

OGR doesn't have the exclusivity on griping and complaining. All forums that I belong to or visit have their share to some degree.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

OGR doesn't have the exclusivity on griping and complaining. All forums that I belong to or visit have their share to some degree.

Very true; OGR at times makes it an art form.

[chuck]

I don't view this as the "sky falling" but I am concerned about some of the material being promulgated by Lionel. I can understand the need to close down something that has limited appeal to focus on other areas. That makes good business sense. What I find harder to buy into is the argument that parts availability/older technology is what is really behind this decision.

I know that ERR released some of the lower current boards that support TMCC without an RL2C receiver (it was built into the board) and I thought that the Legacy receivers could dumb down to run in TMCC mode? The receiver is the key to preserving functionality. Motherboards are fixable/replaceable, it's the receiver that's key. Legacy was always billed as a "bridge" between what happened before and what was "coming". If that is really the case, there should be a way to support the older stuff even if it means some spin off to a third party with licensing or sub contracting.

A bigger concern to me regarding all of this electronics support is that the product line is splitting into basic train control, aka LionChief, and LAYOUT control, aka Legacy. I like the idea of starter sets with BlueTooth control that doesn't require a dedicated controller, aka you can use a phone or tablet with an app. That's great for beginners. What happens when they do get hooked and want to do more elaborate things like layout control?

[G3750]

All Notch six did was post to a beehive of gossip queens. That was Neil's point. Many of the comments on OGR imply Lionel is snuffing ERR as an incentive to ditch aging TMCC engines for new product which is 2000 proof bullcrap. I would count on ERR falling back into the hands of a cottage industry. The talent pool is out there and so is the demand. We have a wealth of cottage industries supplying reproduction parts and service manuals for pre and postwar trains simply because it isn't feasible for Lionel to supply those parts and information. I see ERR going the same way. Turning ERR over to a cottage industry is probably a good thing. It would free up Lionel to focus on new technology while the new owners of ERR to focus on improving ERR.

I get it, John. There are some who take a perverse joy in throwing gasoline on a fire.

I think that ERR or its successor being a cottage-level provider or being farmed out to multiple cottage-level makers is a perfectly reasonable solution as long as that actually takes place.

I am encouraged that Lionel did not blow off customers' legitimate concerns.

Now, let's see what actually transpires.

George

[jlong]

It's like this after every York. The OGR forum lights up like a christmas tree with pathetic ranting. They always dig up something. Remember the stupid cell phone rants? Pathetic.

[Neil]

I am deeply surprised that someone couldn't resist shouting, at the top of their keyboards "and also GET THE HELL OFF MY LAWN." About as reasonable as some of the more whiny, curmudgeonly posts. Almost entertaining in a sort of nuclear winter of society sort of way. And throw in a few complaints about how young people today don't use hula hoops and like Elvis like we did .

[jlong]

I am deeply surprised the thread is still there. Your semi annual "he said she said" York report gone viral. You have to wonder how product engineers and managers survive York. You're basically tossed into a fire pit of arm chair executives who have absolutely no understanding of how market forces work. But then that's why they are arm chair executives.

[G3750]

I am deeply surprised the thread is still there. Your semi annual "he said she said" York report gone viral. You have to wonder how product engineers and managers survive York. You're basically tossed into a fire pit of arm chair executives who have absolutely no understanding of how market forces work. But then that's why they are arm chair executives.

Kinda like "Shark Tank" with the idiots from "The View", right?

George

[HONDO74]

Kinda like "Shark Tank" with the idiots from "The View", right?

George

I kind of wonder about old men who play with toy trains and post on model train forums.

Do they have OCD.... Obsessive-compulsive disorder

[ogaugeguy]

That said, I find it astonishing the number of Chicken Littles we have in this hobby, as well as people who think all corporations/businesses are evil and only looking out for their own interests without considering the customer.

NAILED IT

This will work itself out. It always does. If there is a demand, it will be supplied.

That's a very broad in scope comment, Neil, and and saying it always does work its way out is far from reality since things don't always work out, especially in a positive way.