Weekend Photos - September 2024

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healey36
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Weekend Photos - September 2024

Postby healey36 » Fri Sep 06, 2024 6:38 am

While I'd sworn off making any new cardboard faux-tin for awhile, HONDO74 flipped me a web-shot of someone's effort to make a garage to mate with a Lionel 184 bungalow. After a bit of pondering, we kinda decided to try to make one similar using the matt-board/cardstock/paper construction method.

Using Paul Race's graphics from his "Tin-Style Cottage" project kit, I mucked around using MS Paint to come up with a version of the garage that would sorta match the look of an original Lionel bungalow (the early version with the vines/shrubbery lithography). I drew a pair of vintage-style garage doors using Paint, similar to the ones the original designer came up with. Print/assembly was the standard process...cut out the windows and doors, paint the matt board edges, than paste a cardstock copy in from behind to add a bit of depth to the otherwise slab-sided graphics. The roof paper I similarly printed from Paul's Tribute to Tinplate site under "Tinplate Textures". The base is a scrap of masonite from the shop, covered in dyed sawdust as manufactured by Life-Like some 20 years ago (fortunately I have a couple boxes of that stuff purchased before Life-Like went away). My grandfather used to make his own in a bucket in the basement; a bit of sawdust from the shop floor, some water and green RIT dye, and a stirrer "borrowed" from my grandmother's kitchen. A couple weeks later it was dry and ready to scenic the 1st-gen German-American's Christmas tree putz...but I digress.

Anyway, here's what we came up with. Upper left is the pic provided by the original designer, upper right is our version, and lower is HONDO's two-bungalow plot with one cottage replaced by the garage:

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The lithography on the original bungalow on HONDO74's plot looks pretty dark, likely the result of getting a coat of varnish by the owner at some point. It should appear quite a bit lighter than that, although probably not as light as the color used on the garage. I have a couple of Lionel prewar tunnels that got a similar varnish coat at some point in their lives, a treatment I think folks thought would preserve the painted finish. Unfortunately, the varnish darkens considerably over time.

Here's a pic of an original 184 compared to the garage graphics...still a bit too light, at least in the photos:

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The three bungalows I have all are repros of the late version, having just a simple single-color enamel finish (no lithography). I'll have to see if I can find an early one with an unfaded/unvarnished lithographed finish so we can try to better match it up.

HONDO74 can provide details on his two-bungalow plot. I can't remember if this is an original or one of the repros made by a brave few over the years. I know the only one I have is a half-plot made by Joe Mania some 2-3 decades ago (although I think he still makes them).

Anyway, another fun project. Now back to cleaning up the basement layout.

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healey36
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Re: Weekend Photos - September 2024

Postby healey36 » Sat Sep 07, 2024 10:45 am

Hey Wayne, how much Marx stuff do you have? Me, not much, but this little 999 runs like a champ. Pulled it down off the shelf today and after a bit of clock oil and a shot of electronics cleaner, off it went:

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60+ years old and still runs like it's out of its mind. The durability of Louis Marx's stuff is just amazing.

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healey36
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Re: Weekend Photos - September 2024

Postby healey36 » Mon Sep 09, 2024 5:33 pm

I asked my friend Robert Butler about this practice of varnishing lithographed tinplate back in the day, and he says it was not uncommon. Robert's got a vast collection, so I trust his perspective on this; however, of the couple hundred lithographed pieces I have dating from the 1920s and 1930s, I've not seen any cases of the printed surface flaking off. Don't get me wrong, I've seen plenty of stuff dredged out of someone's damp cool basement that's scuffed/corroded/rusted to the point of it being nearly unrecognizable, but never just printed paint flaking off. They tell me it happens, and folks viewed a good coat of varnish as a preventative. Then again, I don't have one of the lithographed bungalows. He wished me luck finding an example of an original early Lionel 184 bungalow in decent shape that hasn't been varnished. Sounds like a challenge...
Last edited by healey36 on Fri Sep 13, 2024 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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webenda
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Re: Weekend Photos - September 2024

Postby webenda » Tue Sep 10, 2024 11:44 pm

healey36 wrote:Hey Wayne, how much Marx stuff do you have?

Once upon a time, I had three 1666 Marx engines, some Marx tracks, and a Marx transformer. I found it in a box at a yard sale.
The track was interesting because it looked like it had fuzz on it. The fuzz turned out to be tin crystals growing from some sections.
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I no longer have any of that Marx stuff.

What Marx I have now you might have already seen.
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----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

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healey36
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Re: Weekend Photos - September 2024

Postby healey36 » Wed Sep 11, 2024 4:16 am

webenda wrote:The track was interesting because it looked like it had fuzz on it. The fuzz turned out to be tin crystals growing from some sections.
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Those are nice examples of Marx accessories. I always liked the track connection for the Marx grade-crossing signal better than that supplied with LIonel's 154 signal. If you fiddled with the Marx connectors, you could get them positioned such that the flash of the signal was nearly prototypical. No chance with the Lionel clip-on connector.

The tin "whiskering" is pretty interesting, Wayne, as you may remember from our days at Hughes, it proved problematic on some Hughes-built satellites back in the 1990's. I seem to recall this phenomena led to a number of SCP failures on the HS-601 series due to "whiskering" on tin-plated connectors that caused electrical shorts and blown fuses. It took quite awhile for the engineers to figure that out.

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webenda
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Re: Weekend Photos - September 2024

Postby webenda » Wed Sep 11, 2024 2:24 pm

healey36 wrote:
webenda wrote:The tin "whiskering" is pretty interesting, Wayne, as you may remember from our days at Hughes, it proved problematic on some Hughes-built satellites back in the 1990s. I seem to recall this phenomenon led to a number of SCP failures on the HS-601 series due to "whiskering" on tin-plated connectors that caused electrical shorts and blown fuses. It took quite a while for the engineers to figure that out.

I remember. Taking the lead out of tin/lead solder caused the same problem (and more.)

U.S. legislation of 1990 banning lead meant taking the lead out of solder [60% tin and 40% lead (60/40) or 63% tin and 37% lead (63/37)].
Sn/Ag/Cu and Sn/Ag/cu/Sb formulas did not stick to circuit boards. The solution turned out to be simple enough, more aggressive cleaning of the boards before passing through the wave solder machine. But then the tin-whisker problem appeared. Who knew that lead in the solder alloy suppressed the growth of tin whiskers? As you said, it took a while to figure it out.

We specified gold-plated connectors in place of tin-plated connecters. You would think, "Problem solved!" Not so. Sometimes the gold flaked off, causing shorts in wire connectors or blockage of signal in fiber optic connectors. More than one satellite launch failed due to the separation command not reaching the FSM.
----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

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webenda
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Re: Weekend Photos - September 2024

Postby webenda » Wed Sep 11, 2024 4:18 pm

An MTH 4-6-0 is pulling this train at only 12 VDC.
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----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

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Re: Weekend Photos - September 2024

Postby riogrande491 » Wed Sep 11, 2024 7:55 pm

Wow, Wayne! That's a great photo of tin whiskers, the bane of tin plated stuff and lead-free ROHS solders.

NASA had to carefully clean then test all the computer racks and boards for the space shuttle because, among other things, the card cage was fuzzy. Somewhere I may still have their report on my computer. I remember seeing whiskers on some old WW2 US avionics that my dad collected, but at that time, I had no clue what it was.
Bob
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webenda
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Re: Weekend Photos - September 2024

Postby webenda » Fri Sep 13, 2024 9:18 pm

riogrande491 wrote:I remember seeing whiskers on some old WW2 US avionics that my dad collected, but at that time, I had no clue what it was.

Tin whiskers were first discovered in the 1940s by Bell Labs and Western Electric, and were first reported in a 1951 paper by K. G. Compton. Tin whiskers were not a big problem until humans sent things into space. And then it was a NEW discovery.

Who could go up to satellite orbit to wipe the fuzz off? Maybe the crews who went to the Hubble telescope five times to perform "Service Missions?"

Anyway, tin whiskers are not a problem for us modelers. We do have a metal alloy problem. A big one. And the cause is lead. Do you know what it is?
----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

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webenda
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Re: Weekend Photos - September 2024

Postby webenda » Fri Sep 13, 2024 9:35 pm

Speaking of problems... the automobiles that come with Lionel Evans Auto Loaders will not fit inside the Lionel open-side Trailer Train cars. They are too wide and too tall. They only fit on the top rack.
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----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

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healey36
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Re: Weekend Photos - September 2024

Postby healey36 » Sun Sep 15, 2024 8:32 am

Were those Lionel Trailer-Train cars designed/intended to accommodate automobiles? If so, they are surely undersized, as I can't imagine much of anything automotive squeezing in there, certainly none of the diecast stuff that's around.

While I like the look of the original Lionel 6414 "Auto Loader", I never pursued them because the name "Auto Loader" always implied, at least to me, there was an accessory that facilitated the loading aspect. As far as I know, there is not. It would have been interesting if there had been, it being an end-on loading process.

The only automobile cars here are a few of the 6404 flats. One came in a late Scout set, the others just showed up over time. Here's the one from the Scout set:

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No "loader" for these either, plus the automobile needs to be held in place with an elastic band or something...not an optimal look. Someone suggested using one or two black elastic hair-ties. Probably best to try it from the bottom, i.e. wrap the tie around the auto's wheels/axles and pass underneath the 6404. A bit fiddly, I would think, but do-able.

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Re: Weekend Photos - September 2024

Postby Norton » Sun Sep 15, 2024 12:59 pm

It appears the Auto Loader cars worked much like truck auto carriers do today with ramps.

Image


Image

Pete

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healey36
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Re: Weekend Photos - September 2024

Postby healey36 » Sun Sep 15, 2024 3:38 pm

Terrific pics, Pete; thanks for that.

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webenda
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Re: Weekend Photos - September 2024

Postby webenda » Sun Sep 15, 2024 10:05 pm

healey36 wrote:Were those Lionel Trailer-Train cars designed/intended to accommodate automobiles? If so, they are surely undersized, as I can't imagine much of anything automotive squeezing in there, certainly none of the diecast stuff that's around.

I do not know if the Lionel Trailer-Train cars were designed/intended to accommodate automobiles. They work well on O-27 diameter track. I suspect they are close to 1:64 scale with O-gauge trucks. Some of the cars I run are American Flyer S that I swapped the trucks on to run with my O-gauge cars. Can you find an American Flyer car in this train?
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The Baby Ruth car is 1.91" wide. The ATSF Chief car is 1.99" wide. The Lionel Trailer-Train cars are 1.93" wide.
I pre-ordered two 1:64 1964 Ford Galaxie 500XL cars from Diecast Direct. When they arive, I will find out if they fit in the lower racks.
Image
----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

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healey36
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Re: Weekend Photos - September 2024

Postby healey36 » Mon Sep 16, 2024 4:59 am

That's a pretty interesting, Wayne, as I have an example going in the opposite direction. Here's a Kline 3/16-scale O boxcar that they slapped S-gauge trucks under and sold in their waning days as S:

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I only ever bought one of this series, thinking it looked a bit strange sitting so low, but having seen some conversion work recently on some 2-rail O, it actually is probably much more accurate than what Gilbert offered.


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