Doorstop four axle Diesels

[bob turner]

We have lots of threads on these - most photos from years ago are now lost, due to whatever is required to post photos here. Maroon just sent me some drop-dead gorgeous F3 castings - works of art! - and they deserve to be seen by the community - all five of us.

I am about to put the finishing touches on the castings - all that is left is to drill pilot holes for handrails, glue the fans and stacks in place, and paint. I am leaning toward single stripe DRGW, but Western Pacific calls me - I have this thing for orange.

I have not done the photo sessions yet, so you may have to wait - meantime, let's see a few of your four axle doorstops?

[R.K. Maroon]

(Edited to update photo links)

This will be fun -- I will treat this as a "doorstop of the day" type of thing. Here is the very first model I bought specifically knowing it was a doorstop:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/cw9m1ou1ttc15rsolt013/Baldwin-PRR-FM-H20-44-02.JPG?rlkey=pjy6pbmg40ixum43kykduce6a&dl=0

This model of a Fairbanks-Morse H20-44 was manufactured by Baldwin Locomotive Works. Baldwin was the follow-on to Tom "Doc" Beedle's company, which made the BL-Electric box motor. Most Baldwins used the same basic drive arrangement as the Beedle boxcab:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t3jl3pd9s0uk9qkalgiae/Baldwin-PRR-FM-H20-44-03.JPG?rlkey=me79vno43mlcdqzci4vfbwokl&dl=0

Baldwins are also known for a novel truck design that uses hidden leaf springs for equalization. I'll post a photo if I can find one.

Russ Briggs now owns this model. I bought it with the intention of restoring it but a better H20-44 came along and this one wound up in the "never going to happen" pile. I try to find homes for such models.

Jim

[bob turner]

This is actually a half-doorstop, if we define doorstops as sand cast brass. The unit with the cab is brass cast - the calf is standard All Nation die cast minus cab.

[steamaheadstephen59]

Seriously there's only five of us?? I must admit I don't have any four axle door stops, but I'll be watching with interest.

[ScaleCraft]

six?

[R.K. Maroon]

For reference, I purchased the Baldwin Locomotive Works PRR FM H20-44 posted above in January 2011. I have been infected with bronze poisoning ever since. The next four-axle diesel doorstop to arrive was this F3 AB set, also built by Baldwin:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/duu9y6j31dx4b13fqvlaj/Baldwin-F3_02.jpg?rlkey=mjf4tz9t3hcsk2c449jtz7hw5&dl=0

These arrived in June 2011. They sat around the dead track for seven years before I finally cleaned them up, rewired them, and got them running. A short video can be seen here:

https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3533d24i4kkezm08y1u3u/Baldwin-F3-AB-set-test-run-20180928.mp4?rlkey=khyaybtkjbbb3amf296ikp2co&raw=-

That was 2018. They have been sitting around every since. They are not great models -- Detail is sparse, the truck sideframes leave much to be desired, the headlight housing is way too big, and the fiber worm gear in the drive is prone to being stripped out. But these are complete and they run, so I really should paint and letter them. Some dip scheme would be a good choice -- no reason to give these a fancy paint job.

Jim

[bob turner]

Wow! True doorstops!

First, Dave - hang in there - we missed you while you were distracted with health issues. Yes, we need six or more for a decent conversation.

Maroon has some earlier Exacta FTs that have cast-in bats but no rivets. I was rather surprised at how good they looked. We had a little soldering issue, cured with some oxy-acetylene and weights, but all is well now. I will leave it to him to regale you with photos when he is ready.

Meanwhile, here are some later FTs, castings came from Henry Pearce:



Dave will note two trucks off the track. I have since re-gauged the track board, but somehow I often manage to get wheels off during photo sessions. This pair was originally Grande Gold with a single black stripe. Looked better in that scheme, but I think a re-paint is down on the bottom of the current list.

[R.K. Maroon]

(Edited to update photo links)

Here are some later FTs, castings came from Henry Pearce

I did not remember that Pearce Tool ever sold the Adams and Son FT castings, but a quick perusal through the catalogs revealed this listing from the 1962-63 Boxcar Ken catalog:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/j9ku5hsu768i13532z5fd/BOXCAR-KEN-1962-63-Henry-Pearce-Casting-Sets.jpg?rlkey=mmva9ro05l19ru2gpok2l6uc8&dl=0

Note that all the Pearce Tool castings are brass. The original Adams and Son FT was cast bronze, as were the original Ken-Kraft FA and F3. You can tell one from the other using a Neodymium "super" magnet -- A brass casting will pick up the magnet but a bronze casting will not, as shown below (Brass on top, bronze on the bottom):


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5uhrkptanpbztqucjitpv/Figure-10-Brass-v-Bronze.png?rlkey=dvbgd1eifr0nwrufip5yb9dvr&dl=0

And, speaking of the Ken-Kraft Alco FA, a pair of these arrived not long after the Baldwin F3s:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/as16xp7kd7vkz46/Krayer%20FA%20Unptd%2003.JPG?dl=0


https://www.dropbox.com/s/s7m6p3qst65vm58/Ken%20Kraft%20WM%20FA.JPG?dl=0

The top unit has a nice CLW drive in it but an ill-fitting roof (and no paint, obviously) -- alas, as a project it's way down on this list. The WM unit is nice enough and I have a matching caboose, but it has no drive. AACK -- Too many projects!

[bob turner]

I have to go to the big computer to see these. Maybe I should get a drop box app?

But yay! I have a few FA/FB units with Ken's name in them. The only castings I got from Henry were the FT A/B above. Beautiful work on the patterns and the pour. Henry said he would throw a little aluminum in the crucible to "sweeten" the mix.

Is there an advantage to bronze over brass? I know brass makes lousy gear material, and bronze is almost as good as Celcon, but I am not sure I can tell the difference in my doorstops.

Here are some FA/FB doorstops. I have every intention of photographing my NP caboose for a different thread, but it is at the airport, and I get distracted there easily.



I got the GN A and B from Chicagoland for, I think, $35. They liked me. That is my paint you see - I was better at it back then, when I could get a bottle of Scale Coat from the local hobby store. I had Jim Wilhite do the decals.

The unpainted unit is an A-B-A set, and may wind up in B&O. They sit polished at the moment. The GN pair is powered All Nation, and runs quite well. The unpainted set is unpowered, and will probably remain so - one can only run so many locomotives.

[webenda]

A brass casting will pick up the magnet but a bronze casting will not, as shown below (Brass on top, bronze on the bottom):

That does not seem reasonable. Is the magnet attraction to the brass strong or weak?

Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc, both of which are not attracted by a magnetic field. If a magnet sticks to an object that is purportedly brass, then it probably isn't pure brass. It may be brass-plated steel or iron. (Strong attraction.)

954 aluminum bronze contains ~5% Fe and will pull a little key chain magnet. (Weak attraction.)

In terms of composition, this alloy has a minimum of 83% copper with 3%-5% iron, 1.5% nickel, 10%-11.5% aluminum, and 0.5% manganese. 954 bronze is commonly available in flat bars, hollow rods, and solid rods.

954 aluminum bronze is used in plumbing fittings. Some humans automatically think, "Iron in a plumbing fitting? Wouldn't that be a very bad thing?" Not at all. One primary benefit of aluminum bronze is its exceptional corrosion resistance.

954 aluminum bronze is a copper alloy with the Unified Numbering System (UNS) designation C95400. This material is one of the most popular aluminum bronze alloys due to its balance of desirable physical and mechanical properties, including corrosion resistance, tensile strength, and overall durability.

Reference: https://www.sequoia-brass-copper.com/br ... olid%20rod.
http://www.baltimorebrassworks.com/Brass_Facts.html
https://www.amazon.com/TRYMAG-Keychain- ... S5CM6?th=1

[R.K. Maroon]

Wayne gets the prize for actually reading what I wrote and calling BS on it. First, I said "brass" when I should have said "bronze" and vice versa. Also, I should have done more homework instead of accepting what I had been told. From what I read today, neither brass (copper-zinc) nor bronze (copper-tin) are magnetic in their simplest two-part alloys. Brass is never magnetic unless it has particular impurities in it (iron or nickel, as I understand it). Some bronzes have iron or nickel purposely added to get some desired property, and these allows may then be mildly magnetic. It is not strong -- the only way I could detect it is with a "super" NDM magnet. I tested about a dozen Adams and Son cast models today at the shop, most of which I believe to be bronze, and only a few them showed the magnetic attraction. Further, it was often only one component, like the roof or nose, that was magnetic. My guess is that Adams and Son used whatever ingots and scrap they could get at reasonable prices, and some of it just happened to be an alloy that was mildly magnetic. So much for my method of telling brass from bronze. Dang it

Thanks, Wayne!
Jim

[De Bruin]

A public service to any of the uninformed here( yeah there may be one)
While beautiful cast diesels like Bob, Dave and Jim's can be had if one exercises patience, goes to O scale meets or examines/reads the E-Bay or Yard Sale listings carefully, this is what they typically look like when I find them....

Yikes the missing tanks are just the beginning…looking at them kind of makes one lose the will to live…..
nevertheless I’m having fun considering what scheme to do these in once I get them cleaned, drives sorted out, car bodies re-worked etc.. Tennessee Central comes to mind, though early factory Katy would be fun too.

I do have some All Nation and LWS, but neither strikes me as “door-stop-like” enough for this string so here you go, .... I do have an even uglier Adams and Sons E7 in the same lame brush job, but you know, obviously A1A-A1A so…..lucky you!

Typical of "Montana Mans" other estate goodies, note one of these has Blombergs a la Rock Islands.

These ran as a semi-permanently coupled pair with a drawbar, common harness and a single shared Astrac decoder. Each unit as-is weighs just under 7 lbs. , making them excellent candidates for trot-line sinkers if you’re into river fishing for Gasper Gue, Grendle, Cat-Fish and what-not.

[bob turner]

Not close enough to tell - are those Ken Krayer castings with rivet detail, or something else? The windshield can be saved with an overlay. Not sure about the rest. There may be a prototype for Blomberg trucks - not sure . . .

I am feeling a renewed interest in the doorstop FA - I have plenty, but will be doing some serious measuring tomorrow, when I remember to bring one of them home.

Meantime, here is a Simon GP7 - thanks, Carey. I have another, now in ACL paint, that I will post soon, as I have not yet uploaded a photo. Note the truly fine detail, and the really accurate Blomberg trucks. This one is definitely a bronze alloy; it will age to a reddish hue. It may never get painted - it is an art form.

[De Bruin]

Not close enough to tell - are those Ken Krayer castings with rivet detail, or something else? The windshield can be saved with an overlay. Not sure about the rest. There may be a prototype for Blomberg trucks - not sure . . .

According to Maroon they're Ken Kraft not Ken Krayer, opinion but the windshields are the least of it. All Nation drives a plus though getting the right AAR B sideframes on them will be a chore I'm sure, then again Rock Island got replacement Blombergs on a subset of their EMD repowered FA1's, so maybe I should just find another set of AN Blomberg sideframes for the second unit and do these in that nice solid dip maroon scheme with the white pin-stripes and silver trucks. Then again drilling and mounting the 567 exhaust stacks with the spark arrestors would be required, not hard though. hmmm....

Neat Geep, rare as a casting too, nice!

[bob turner]

I will have to review the difference - they do say "Ken Kraft" inside. Meadville Pa. Not the same guy?
I have an FA/FB in Great Northern, and bare, unpowered FA/B/A ready for paint. I am thinking B&O, so I can return my FTs to Pumpkin Orange. But maybe one of the As will get the black and red of Rock Island. Maybe.

Here is the WA Simon brass model in ACL. Nope, no handrails, but I did drill it. All it needs is some brass rod. It does have a motor and gearboxes, but I have not yet tested it. Pretty tight in there.

Oh - and I discovered my purple is maybe not as accurate as it should be - it was a Testor's rattle can. Better luck next time. Decals from Pete.