Alco PA and FA 2023

[sleepmac]

Bob, 'm having a brain fart. Is that magnificent machine a PA-1 or PA-2?

Thank you,
Dan Weinhold

[E7]

This is obviously All Opinion, but the Alcos would have been a lot better looking without that MESS around the headlight. If Jim would show a shot of the front of 724 (which is exactly like the prototype 724) you will see what I mean. A lot simpler and more streamlined. As cab units go, I have always liked the C-liners best. The old beauty is in the eye of the beholder thing!

[steamaheadstephen59]

Well Bob I to have been watching Careys video and wishing I had one or two of those cast CLW's PA's, then Id be off to see If I could get some nickel plating done locally. I do have the latter PA's thou so I should be grateful. Thou the cast one's have a different look and quality. I noticed Carey experienced on Facebook that not every one loves and appreciates doorsteps as we do. Ive watched his video a few times now and they are motivating for sure.

[bob turner]

Yeah, doorstop collecting is indeed a very small niche of a very small facet of the model railroad hobby. But something is going on; these pieces of relative junk are bringing hundreds of dollars! It isn't me that is bidding these things skyward; I have enough!

You know, the one thing I do not have is a metal C-liner. I promise you, if a pair of plastic bodies dropped in I might be tempted to do one more conversion project. It would have to be the five axle version.

Nah, I have enough.

Unlike Rich, I think the PA headlight area is elegant. I also think the E7 might be just as attractive as a PA.

As to the difference between PA-1 and PA-2, you are asking the wrong guy. I cannot tell an SD9 from an SD7.

[De Bruin]

....having a brain fart....a PA-1 or PA-2?

I watched this with the sound on, had some thoughts; Carey reiterates the interesting story behind this 1st version CLW PA as originally commissioned by Alco as a promotional model for their introduction of the prototype as built for the AT&SF. So it's the original "2000 HP Passenger Locomotive" as they were individually referred to by the builder, only later referred to as the PA-1 (similarly my understanding the FA's model nomenclature was originally as a "1500 HP Freight Locomotive" and only later as the FA. According to McCall's book AT&SF had 12 ABA sets and 4 AA sets of PA/PB-1's, a big fleet (though not as big as SP's, albeit I think their's ran through all three versions.)

I do like Carey's stuff, he knows what he likes and likes to show it off, more power to him. My opinion the 17/64 Pomona Valley Monel metal cars are additional tasty gravy in this too. Though I compulsively would "clean up" the whole "set" (decals, finish, drum head on the ob, mars light, correct the scheme etc) I'm not a true collector like he is, I fully understand why he likes these just the way they are and again am grateful he does what he does.

On a different note,to me subjective opinions about the relative aesthetic merit of given carbody designs are like assertions over music, food or colors as in "I hate (insert your least favorite vegetable)." To me, good or bad the grill sconce around the PA/FA headlights is only one of many facets of the original designers vision. I have read the fins around it had some functional basis too, so there's that.
I think it's safe to say, solely going on the industry/hobby consensus overall though that Alco "got it right" with this series.

[E7]

To me, good or bad the grill sconce around the PA/FA headlights is only one of many facets of the original designers vision. I have read the fins around it had some functional basis too, so there's that.

Pete, This is just speculation, but if you look at Jim's FA #724 (nee Fred Bradly) you will note the lack of the "grille" around the headlight. There was a prototype #724 FA that was identical to the model (no grille). I think this engine was involved in a grille/no grille decision. Obviously ALL speculation on my part. Why just the one in that format? Also had that large cylindrical gizmo on the rear.

PS: There is an image of the prototype engine on the Net....if I can locate it, Ill add a link.

[bob turner]

Picture of a wood mockup in the Jim Boyd book. No grille.

Send your headlight grilles here - we are missing at least one.

[De Bruin]

Rich, I'm pretty sure what your seeing on Jim's GM&O FA is a differently shaped grill rather than the absence of one per
the below example from George Elwood's Fallen Flags site. My understanding is these early units (1945) were the first (and only) versions to have this feature as Alco-GE were still figuring out their new freight cab series design, likewise note only these early units sported the drip strip behind the cab window one normally associates with the PA-1's and 2'. As an aside I've heard the upper finned headlight grill could be heated to reduce the snow build-up effect on recessed headlights in winter, but I've yet to find that in print so that might be baseless conjecture (or what Sarge refers to as "Kalmbachery." )


GM&O had actually placed a wartime order based on Alco's preceding ABA 1500 HP B-B demonstrator unit set often referred to as the "Black Maria" which stylistically resembled their DL passenger series. Below link from Trains
https://www.trains.com/ctr/railroads/lo ... ck-marias/
By the time they were delivered Alco-GE had radically modified the car body design and likewise replaced the M&S 241 with the 244 with this FA configuration.
Diesel Shop has an interesting section on these too, the demo version of the FA you refer to is also illustrated there.
https://www.thedieselshop.us/Alco_Cab_Evolution.HTML

[E7]

Rich, I'm pretty sure what your seeing on Jim's GM&O FA is a differently shaped grill rather than the absence of one

Pete, You are correct! Been a while since I saw the pic. I much prefer that look to the full blown mess! The image of 727 would best illustrate my preference.

PS: What's that above the headlight on 728, a mini gun (puff the magic dragon) ?

[De Bruin]

Think it's an MU cable plug receptacle, also note the illuminated number display above the cab, another design characteristic shared with the AT&SF's PA's again only with these early GM&O versions.

[E7]

Pete, I figured as much, but the mini gun sounded neater!

Rich

[bob turner]

I just started a Warbonet paint scheme, using the wrong red - and then reached across the workbench and found an apparently still good - maybe unopened - bottle of the correct Scale Coat color. There is hope . . .

Further study shows a silver, then black, stripe at the bottom of the carbody. Never noticed that before. Get out the ruling pen, I guess.

[E7]

Bob, The GAS factor (Give a Sh_t) gets pretty sketchy after the BIG seven oh.

[bob turner]

At least you responded.

[Mitch]

I just started a Warbonet paint scheme, using the wrong red - and then reached across the workbench and found an apparently still good - maybe unopened - bottle of the correct Scale Coat color. There is hope . . .

Might be time to clean up the workbench to not make the same mistake again. I lose tools on my bench that I just used minutes before. I blame the losses on the Bench Monster stealing them.