Northerns

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R.K. Maroon
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Northerns

Postby R.K. Maroon » Thu May 04, 2023 10:05 pm

I looked to see if we had a specific thread on 4-8-4s and didn't find one. I got a nice C&NW H1 serviced and ready to run recently, and while I thought about naming this thread specifically for that model, I decided to be more general in hopes of seeing other Northerns posted as follow up. Here is the H1:

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This is an ATA model. ATA stood for A. Thomas Alsgard, a Chicago custom builder in the 1930s and 40s who eventually offered a few standard models as either kits or built. This 4-8-4 was one of them. I first saw this particular model in the possession of the late Alf Modine. He told me he bought it from the original owner, whose name I do not know. It was bought as a kit in the late 1940s and built by the buyer in Tom Alsgard's shop, which he opened on Saturdays to modelers who bought one of his kits. It was worn out by the time Alf acquired in the 1970s. Alf completely restored it and superdetailed it (the original models were rather crude). He installed a KTM gearbox and a PM motor. I first saw it in a display case in Alf's living room during an open house at O-Scale West, 2015. Alf and I discovered we both grew up on the north shore of Chicago, one stop away from each other on the C&NW and the North Shore, so we had a lot to talk about. He got a chuckle that I knew this model as an ATA , as it's pretty obscure. We talked a few times on the phone after that, but Alf passed away just a year or two later so that was our only meeting. A mutual friend knew of my general interest in old models and my particular interest in the H1 and offered to see if I could have a chance to acquire it. It took a while but it finally came my way. I will post a video once I get it edited.

Jim
Slow progress is better than no progress

steamaheadstephen59
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Re: Northerns

Postby steamaheadstephen59 » Fri May 05, 2023 7:54 am

I look forward to seeing it run.

bob turner
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Re: Northerns

Postby bob turner » Fri May 05, 2023 10:44 am

Alf was a really nice guy. I remember one year one of his prize winning models was snatched out of the OSW contest room. We took him to dinner to commiserate.
I promise Northerns, after a few from the rest of us.

86TA355SR
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Re: Northerns

Postby 86TA355SR » Fri May 05, 2023 10:46 am

Always interesting to hear where the models originated and the history. Over the years, began keeping notes on stuff like that which serves two purposes-memory and the next generation owner.

Your model is beautiful and a real tribute to the craftsmanship/ability of some people. Spoke with a gentleman at March Meet who scratch built an H-1, though I haven’t saw it (yet), the pictures were magnificent. True craftsman.

Since you requested Northern pictures, I’ll post this. It required stripping, brass repair, a PM, paint and weathering. There’s a few other Northerns on the shelf but this is the only one I have a picture of currently.

Image

bob turner
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Re: Northerns

Postby bob turner » Fri May 05, 2023 12:30 pm

Nice. Mine won’t hold a candle to that. Well, maybe the Lionel is close -

I was reflecting that I really didn’t have many Northerns - but once I started counting -
Four FEFs
Four Daylight Northerns (one scratchbuilt with copper boiler)
One GS-1 with another on the way
One Greenbrier
Total ten! If only there were a cure . . .

E7
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Re: Northerns

Postby E7 » Fri May 05, 2023 5:36 pm

bob turner wrote:If only there were a cure . . .


Get yerself a Niagara! That will help you feel better! I don't have any pictures, but I have a US Hobbies version I got from my very good friend, the late Walt Anderson of Woodstock, NY. I will have it until Walt and I meet again!

steamaheadstephen59
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Re: Northerns

Postby steamaheadstephen59 » Sat May 06, 2023 8:43 am

Image I only have this FEF, KTM, bought it on Ebay here in Australia. The cab roof was bent back on its self, and other bits and pieses needed re-soldering and a few smaller dents. I still haven't painted the cab roof yet. It also came with a spare boiler and cab. There is a Williams GS4, and MTH C&O Greenbrier nothing unusual. So thats my contribution.

bob turner
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Re: Northerns

Postby bob turner » Sat May 06, 2023 12:17 pm

Turns out only one of my Northerns is in the Shutterfly - one I had not counted above! Here is a propane-powered Little Engines Northern in what surely is 17/64 scale. I have seen it run on air.

Image

bob turner
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Re: Northerns

Postby bob turner » Sat May 06, 2023 12:21 pm

This is a Lionel FEF with USH drivers and homemade side rods - More info in the UP vol 2 thread:

Image

J. S. Bach
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Re: Northerns

Postby J. S. Bach » Sat May 06, 2023 2:06 pm

That Lionel looks great. The USH drivers really make it stand out.

I do not have any 4-8-4s, the largest non-articulator that I had was a Scale Craft SP MT-something (3?) numbered 4353 (not sure if that was correct for the Scale Craft, though) that weighed about 17 pounds (without the tender); whoever owned it before me had crammed lead into every nook and cranny that was possible! Then had to carve a little out to clear some internal bumps. I wish that I still had that beast! It had been acquired in a deal set up by Bob R. He had set up a deal to buy a small O scale collection for $100.00*. (Remember that this was back around 1965 and we were all still in high school.). As far I can remember, it consisted of three locomotives and some freight cars. Two of us put in $33.00 and Bob put in $34.00. The three locomotives were two somewhat small ones and the MT. I was the only one that wanted the MT so I got it as being "second in line". For freight cars, I got a head-end reefer, Scalecraft unpainted tanker and Scalecraft PRR hopper. I still have the tanker and hopper, btw. For some reason no one else wanted the tanker!

The largest steamer that I have is a scratch-built Challenger using All Nation running gear.

*The inflation calculator tells me that would be $960.00 today; considering what we got, it was probably not too bad of a deal at $320.00 each

EDIT: There may have been a fourth engine that was sold to recoup some (maybe all or more!) of our expenditures.. Hey, it has been a few years since that deal went down. And now there is no one else left to ask.

bob turner
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Re: Northerns

Postby bob turner » Sun May 07, 2023 2:19 pm

Definitely one of my favorites - copper boiler, silver-soldered (the 1100 degree stuff), main frame from a 1"x1" brass bar, tender trucks from my pattern, skyline casing struggled with for days . . . all that, and it ran, a couple decades ago. Good lubrication, so it should still run fine.

Image

I should note - colors are good old Scale Coat. Decals by Overland - I now have my own decals with black outline. I lament not being able to simply go to the store and get Scale Coat, but we have a supplier here who can match colors. Turns out that I come awfully close to Daylight orange using one of the airplane rattle cans, and the red will be Chrysler red from a Dupli-color can. The current project will be ready for paint in early June - look for it on the Atlantic thread.

Oh - the paint matcher is up to $125 for a match. Yow! And I complained when Scale Coat hit eight bucks an ounce! Of course, we get three long-lasting rattle cans for that price, and it is a perfect match each time.

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De Bruin
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Re: Northerns

Postby De Bruin » Mon May 08, 2023 9:34 pm

Only have two Northern's to post and some of you have seen them both already, one is this CLW that belongs to the RMCA. No prototype, as I recall a mix of Milw. Rd. S Class and UP FEF characteristics.
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The other is this ancient AN awaiting restoration
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bob turner
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Re: Northerns

Postby bob turner » Tue May 09, 2023 1:34 pm

I think they are both Scale Craft/CLW. The proof would be looking at the mechanism, but look at that cab and smokebox front - and the outside bearing lead truck.

Let me go get my CLW/Scale Craft - I agree with Pete that these things are a cross between MILW and UP:

Image'

Charlie Schwarm would have told you the biggest flaw was driver spacing - he had actually shortened one set of frames before he departed. His name appears on the elevation drawing for the model. Best to fill in the gaps with plastic brake beams - maybe someday. Tender is the one Scale Craft cast in aluminum for the kit, but it, too, has no prototype until you put the Lobaugh Centipede under it.

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R.K. Maroon
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Re: Northerns

Postby R.K. Maroon » Tue May 16, 2023 10:32 pm

It is a shame that the Scale-Craft/CLW Northern has no clear prototype. I wonder if the driver spacing was a compromise that came from the sprung-and-equalized driver setup?

I have posted a video of the ATA C&NW H1 on YouTube. The link is below. Once again I shot the video with the model on MIchael Ross's Virginian layout, which is nearing completion. You all have seen it before but hopefully you won't tire of it.

https://youtu.be/rb8soo6b3ls

Jim
Slow progress is better than no progress

bob turner
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Re: Northerns

Postby bob turner » Wed May 17, 2023 12:07 pm

Truly a neat follow-up. Since it has been a while, let’s note that ATA models is obscure, but explained in Jim’s first post.

I for one am also impressed by Michael’s layout and the freight cars. Looking forward to more.


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