Mercedes of Steam

[bob turner]

I am kind of a closet N&W fan - gave some thought to scratchbuilding a 17/64 "Class A".

I had a Williams 2-rail version through here a couple decades ago, and except for the firebox, I was impressed. Now Lionel has one with proper width firebox, and from afar, it looks like a scale model on 3-rail mechanisms. I wonder if it will cause the Williams model to plummet? I bet I could fix the firebox.

OSN readers might recall that I have a Williams "J" from 1990 - I am still thoroughly impressed with it. Remember, I am not an N&W rivet counter; just admire the colors and the steam.

[R.K. Maroon]

A boiler from a Williams J3 Hudson came my way once:



Williams was completely off my radar screen at the time, as I associated it with low-end three-rail. The boiler had some issues (like the opening smokebox front that didn't quite look right), but overall it was a much better model than I ever would have expected.

I am not a particular fan of the N&W but I do like the videos of #611 working up Linden Hill.

Here the locomotive comes into view around the four-minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK2FIJ6G4xU
I like that they didn't ruin the look by putting a diesel behind the J.

This one is almost painful to watch, but somehow the crew keeps it moving: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-eebeVoPw4

[gregj410]

We had access to a farm in 2019 to shoot the J in Strasburg. I’m not a big fan but live steam up close is really neat

https://youtube.com/shorts/-kzjgxnGg1M?feature=share

[robert.]

Kind of a poor planed route. A curve and a hill. Toss in some rain and you should be good to go.

[Chris Rock]

If you admire the colors and enjoy the steam then what else is there to discuss? Could be some good, some oh no, and some what is to be expected. There should be an honest assessment. Flaws are tricky to reveal in different versions of the model but they are there. I'm still deliberating. I'm considering buying two, and one with one switching the tender with an MTH. It is pretty messed up. If you are into the fidelity of the model, etc, you really are put into a bind.

[bob turner]

Did you mean the J, or the Lionel A?

I know the Williams J is quite a bit "off" but I really don't know where. The Williams A, however had a way too narrow firebox, and was otherwise quite a handsome piece. The Lionel looks quite accurate at first glance, but I think I am "over" die cast.

[E7]

Maybe we can solicit an opinion from "Big Jim" who has said here previously that his Father was responsible for fabricating the J's skyline casing. There are probably some posts buried regarding that topic. I am fairly sure Jim stated that none of them (model makers that is) got it totally correct.

It is my BIASED OPINION that the J easily wins the beauty contest for streamlined steam. It visually reeks of speed. As for the best model (I don't own one, sniff sniff) all I can say is, if I buy, I won't be buying die cast. There are certainly some stunning shots of the real thing out there, so if I ever go in search of one, I will arm myself with photos. Any comments from Chris (Rock) Smith or any other N&W gurus out there?

Rich

[bob turner]

Being pretty much an SP nut, I am going to assert that the GS-3 Daylight is equally handsome - but I agree; the "J" has to be right on up there for sheer handsomeness. And I really like the black, Tuscan, Dulux paint scheme - even on Clark Benson extrusions!

[E7]

Being pretty much an SP nut, I am going to assert that the GS-3 Daylight is equally handsome - but I agree; the "J" has to be right on up there for sheer handsomeness.

Take that fancy Daylight paint away and paint them both solid BLACK. The J will win, no contest!

[Chris Rock]

Bob, the Lionel A. I'm on the fence about it. If it were not for a few things that are bothering me about the model I'd be looking for someone to convert it to 2 rail. I don't know anyone personally who does 2 rail conversions anymore.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I don't know anyone personally who does 2 rail conversions anymore.

Sadly, w/o Joe F. it seems that this cottage industry has dried up and blown away.

[E7]

I had a Williams 2-rail version through here a couple decades ago, and except for the firebox, I was impressed. Now Lionel has one with proper width firebox, and from afar, it looks like a scale model on 3-rail mechanisms. I wonder if it will cause the Williams model to plummet? I bet I could fix the firebox.

Plummet from where? My recollection of Williams is that they were always the skimpy detailed discount versions of various stuff done by other Importers. I always perceived the whole 3 rail brass thing to be silly. Not sure how they are since they have been taken over by "Botchman" (Thanks Dave)

[bob turner]

The two Williams N & W locomotives were, in my opinion, quite good, and svailable 2-rail. I currently own a J, three PRR B6sb switchers, and a PRR S2. Oh, and a PRR T1. I am pleased with all of them - I traded a Gem B6 for one of the Williams versions, and was happy with the trade.

I have heard there are serious flaws in the J, but have never seen them discussed. The A has a narrow firebox, and if I ever run into a 2-rail version below, say, $300, I shall fix that.

All are well-constructed out of heavy brass, with excellent soldering and superb paint and lettering. For the budget-minded, I highly recommend them. I have had high end brass here - Overland and PSC in particular - could not wait to unload them. Flimsoid and difficult to maintain. I kept the PSC Harrimans, since so far they are the only accurate models available in O scale of those coaches.

[E7]

Pretty sure the PRR S2 was a Williams project taken over by Sunset who did the original more highly detailed version, so you can't really call that a Williams. You still can't get over the fact that Overland had a few turds, but overall produced a ton of good stuff, far more than Williams who was mainly 3 rail oriented. Why don't you post a few shots of your J and we can discuss it. I do NOT own a J or any other N&W locos.

Maybe Chris Smith who has probably forgotten more about N&W than either of us know, would weigh in. It's mostly opinion so why not get more of them.

[Big Jim]

Mercedes of Steam?
Well, that is the N&W Class A...according to Ed King. And, who am I to argue? A magnificent locomotive indeed! My father's favorite engine. Very sleek and trim and fast to boot. Just compare its looks to that pipefitter's nightmare the C&O Allegheny! A co-worker once related to me that he was riding his motorcycle on the straight line down around Windsor, VA. at 80 mph when an A passed him with a coal train "like I was sitting still"!
I see a lot of people here and elsewhere comment on the narrow firebox of the Williams version. To those folks I say...you are obviously blind! You completely missed the steam pipe connection to the front engine! Why the folks at Williams decided to use the same connection that is on a UP Challenger is beyond me! Narrow firebox...hah! Those pipes make me cringe!!!
Lionel has done a pretty good job on this new Class A. Much better than the previous version. The cold water pump is tucked in as it should be, nice lubricator linkage, injector outlet pipe goes through the bolster as it should (a detail missed by most every previous 3 rail version).
A few details missing that I would like to have seen are, the rod from cab to whistle. Cab curtains. Water gauge on fireman's side of the tender.

As for the Williams Class J, the big thing that stuck out to me was the brake cylinders on the sides of the trailing truck. They are not supposed to be there! Other than some missing bright details around the nose and skyline, it is a nice looking model.