What kit or builder is this?

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bob turner
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Re: What kit or builder is this?

Postby bob turner » Thu Nov 03, 2022 6:40 pm

They are at the airport - I will measure them tomorrow. I gotta admit - so far they look identical to me.

E7
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Re: What kit or builder is this?

Postby E7 » Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:11 pm

No need to measure, get out the spectacles. They have plainly different features and a subtly different shape. Pilots are clearly different and location of the streamlined number boards is different. They are similar, but in no way identical.There are also 2 square openings along the side just below the roof line of the painted one that are not present on the bare brass one.

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big bad jim
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Re: What kit or builder is this?

Postby big bad jim » Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:20 am

E7 wrote:No need to measure, get out the spectacles. They have plainly different features and a subtly different shape. Pilots are clearly different and location of the streamlined number boards is different. They are similar, but in no way identical.There are also 2 square openings along the side just below the roof line of the painted one that are not present on the bare brass one.


Either I'm blind, or looking at the wrong photos, or this is a trick post? I'm not seeing all the differences that are stated as being clearly visible. Pilots and sides look the same to me. Are the square openings below the roof line the screened areas on either side of the door? IF so, they sure seem to be on both models. The numberboard is hard to tell, the reflectivity of the raw brass is deceptive (to me) as is the part where the photo is taken ever so slightly at a 3/4 type angle. I think that same angle is also affecting the appearance of the pilots.

The obvious difference to me is a guess that the fuel tank is backwards on one of the units, or the entire frame is backwards. I'm guessing the air tanks should point to the same end on both sides of the unit.

bob turner
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Re: What kit or builder is this?

Postby bob turner » Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:59 am

I don't remember any decision point for the air tanks. They are pinned and soldered to the sides, same as the PAs. I do recall checking the PA tanks for orientation, but in either case I would have to check again if presented with the question.

I never noticed the discrepancy, and these have been on display for two decades. Again, will check the castings this afternoon.

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ScaleCraft
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Re: What kit or builder is this?

Postby ScaleCraft » Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:18 pm

Part of the issue is the perpendicular point is well forward of the GN unit.
The angle makes it appear the number boards are in different locations.
It sure appears the anti-climbers extend further around on the GN, and whatever it is below them on the pilot is further forward on the bare unit, but again, camera angle. Pilot apron does seem to have something major hanging own on the bare unit.
On bare, all ladders missing, and yes, fuel tank issues, here is a GN FA, you tell me on the fuel tank.
https://www.american-rails.com/images/0 ... 087208.jpg

Exhaust stack.
Shape of the top of the noses. Compare to prototype photo.
Dave....collector, restorer, and operator of the finest doorstops

E7
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Re: What kit or builder is this?

Postby E7 » Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:46 pm

Looking a second time and taking into account lighting and angle, the ONE thing that still looks different is the pilot.

bob turner
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Re: What kit or builder is this?

Postby bob turner » Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:52 pm

Beautiful paint! I may someday do that on the bare units. But it is a different model FA. These models are the shorter version.

I brought the models home. They still look absolutely 100% identical - pilots, anti-climbers, number boards, length . . . Even pilots are identical. The little shelf on the bottom may have been filed upon a bit on the painted model, but it is there.

The unpainted unit has two left-hand tanks. I will check the others. I have one more FA and two FBs.

You want to see doorstop variations, the FTs take the cake. The E7s are not far behind.

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R.K. Maroon
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Re: What kit or builder is this?

Postby R.K. Maroon » Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:41 pm

Just for the record, the cast FA is a Ken-Kraft product, not a Ken Krayer. The "Ken" in Ken-Kraft was Kenneth L. Rupp. There is no evidence that Ken Krayer, who later formed Penn-Erie models, was involved with Ken-Kraft (He would have been 25 at the time). However, Ken's father Edward Krayer is listed as an associate in the Ken-Kraft literature. The full story is related in O Scale Trains, Issue #103, May-June 2019.

Note also that Henry Pearce wound up with the tooling for the cast FA and sold the casting set for many years. As best I can tell, the originals were bronze and marked Ken-Kraft under the roof, while the Pearce Tool versions were brass with no markings.

I am a big fan of these models. Here is one in Western Maryland markings with the original cast trucks. I think B-truck cab units really look better in pairs than alone, but, alas, this one arrived without a mate.

Image

Jim
Slow progress is better than no progress

bob turner
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Re: What kit or builder is this?

Postby bob turner » Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:02 pm

Oops! I remember that discussion about Ken Kraft. I just forgot. I think 3/5 of mine are Pearce.

E7
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Re: What kit or builder is this?

Postby E7 » Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:57 am

This discussion is almost as interesting as the Greta Thunberg thing! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

E7
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Re: What kit or builder is this?

Postby E7 » Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:11 am

Here is a link to an auction for an HO version. Key is usually fairly accurate.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/314196962011?h ... R7T33bGJYQ

bob turner
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Re: What kit or builder is this?

Postby bob turner » Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:18 pm

I am far more interested in six axle locomotives - PA, E7, the Erie-built, and the SD9 - than I am in any F-units. However, the doorstops above are FA-1s, a somewhat shorter version than the non-O Scale FA-2s discussed above.

Turns out I got the air tanks facing aft wherever I could, so I must have done minimal research. Best place for minimal research without buying a book is Bing Images:

https://www.google.com/search?q=alco+fa ... e&ie=UTF-8

And here are a few FA-2 photos - air tanks, when visible, still face to the rear:

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=al ... HoverTitle

E7
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Re: What kit or builder is this?

Postby E7 » Tue Nov 08, 2022 12:13 am

bob turner wrote:I am far more interested in six axle locomotives - PA, E7, the Erie-built, and the SD9 - than I am in any F-units.


Better throw in FM C-Liners as some had six wheel trucks, and the E7's and E8's were pretty much alike except for the number boards and winterization hatches. E9's were different.

bob turner
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Re: What kit or builder is this?

Postby bob turner » Tue Nov 08, 2022 11:23 am

I do like the CLiners, especially the five axle versions. But not enough to convert one to metal.

The only EMD six axle passenger unit I like is the E7. I have a bunch of them. No shovel noses, no E8/9 around here. Just me.


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