Passenger Cars 2021

Discuss All Facets of 2-Rail, 1/48 Scale, Model Railroading
E7
Posts: 8262
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:35 am

Re: Passenger Cars 2021

Postby E7 » Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:30 pm

bob turner wrote:My K-Liners are on page 10/11. Change gears here a bit- always a soft spot for Harriman cars, and PSC did the best ones, although not painted and no interiors. Still, state-of-the-art in 1986:

Image


PSC did a bunch of really great heavyweights which are great transition era fodder. This may be heresy, but considering the graphics that are doable today I've always wondered why someone never came up with an extremely accurate set/sets of stick-ons that could be applied to the inside of the windows to simulate interiors. I think Weaver might have had some cars with them. One would still have to take the cars apart, but it would go pretty fast after that. Just guessing, but I think they could be made to look better than respectable.

User avatar
sarge
Posts: 4811
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:21 pm
Location: Dungfield Manor

Re: Passenger Cars 2021

Postby sarge » Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:57 pm

A guy I knew used to stage photos for that purpose, friends and family members sitting in a coach seat he had, tables with full settings of dining car china and silver. Lucky for him he modelled PRR so no domes to deal with, which probably would not have worked.
No-one ever forgets where they buried the hatchet.

up148
Posts: 3969
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:52 am

Re: Passenger Cars 2021

Postby up148 » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:32 pm

De Bruin wrote:Their folly is your gain indeed Butch, really like these Wasatch ACF's a lot. Also one of the few series of prototype models with complete readily available commercial UP decal sets thanks to MicroScale. Great looking car bodies.
Help me out here as my memory is foggy and I know we've discussed this here in the past.
The Wasatch are the evolution of the old Kemtron/Briggs cars or dimensionally a new line altogether?
I like the old Kemtrons, tricky as they were to build, they're evidently good fodder for kit-bashing too if you have soldiering "chops" like Bill Badsen.



Sorry, I had to be away from the computer. The Wasatch cars, as Bob stated, were/are a totally clean design UP passenger car imported by Roger Lewis (Wasatch) in 1993/94 and had no roots to Kemtron or Briggs. They were all brought in unpainted although Roger had some cars custom painted here in the states for customers who asked. They had no interiors or glazing, but some of the most accurate and fantastic under body detail of any model up to that time and the correct CUDO trucks that were a knock out. Vestibule doors were correct dutch style and stairs that rotated down like the prototype. Top, bottom or both halves of the doors are held open by small magnets They are hands down the most accurate UP passenger car models in the universe and exquisite. I've been told the PRR Smithsonian passenger cars are just as good or better, but I don't know. I think Dan Pantera has painted, installed interiors, glazed and detailed more Wasatch cars than anyone on the planet and it the best IMHO.

The Kemtrons were all offered as kits and were considered a tough build, so the quality of the finished car was hit or miss depending on the talents of the builder. I bought a complete UP COLA train set in the early 90's, represented to be one of the UP "name" train that was displayed in all the UP depots in the 50's.........but it was not that great of a build either.....but that's all we had back then and I couldn't afford $400-500 for a Wasatch car unpainted.

The Kemtron roof sheet came flat and was a booger to get formed correctly or soldered plumb to the sides once formed. I was always told the only way to do it was to anneal it, as Bob stated, but then it had to be rolled correctly or it would meet the sides unevenly. The kits came with wood floors, like most of the kits of the day and had no details.....those had to be added by the builder. Kemtron did offer truck kits (TK300) that were outside swing hanger trucks and similar to the UP CUDO trucks, but not quite right.

The Russ Briggs evolution of this car came with the roof panel already formed and had brass floors instead of wood. Russ offered kits as well as some cars built up (no idea who built them) with no under body detail, trucks, interior, etc. The rivet, window surround and other etched detail was crisper than the Kemtron kits.

By the way, this was my experience with these different passenger cars and what I learned about them. It is by no means 100% correct and I still like to learn so please let us know if your mileage is/was different.

E7
Posts: 8262
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:35 am

Re: Passenger Cars 2021

Postby E7 » Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:27 am

The Smithsonian 20th Century cars are great. The floor plans of the Broadway Limited cars are flipped. More on that later. The Broadway is the PRR 5 track mainline, not the street in NYC. Therein lies a hint to the problem. More later.

bob turner
Posts: 12833
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:57 pm

Re: Passenger Cars 2021

Postby bob turner » Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:54 pm

I have some Sunset Broadway photos - happy to share if that becomes of interest. Never could quite justify $600 for a coach, although these Harrimans were over $300 back when that was a lot of $. I bought them new.

This one is a delightful turn-of-the-century coach - very quickly the top windows were plated over. I rode in a combine with stained glass showing on the inside, under the plating. Not sure that combine survived, but I have two PSC models of it, and there exist photos of it in the Benson yard.

Image

E7
Posts: 8262
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:35 am

Re: Passenger Cars 2021

Postby E7 » Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:44 pm

Nice car Bob!

As for the issue with the Lionel/Fine Arts Broadway Limited, the floor plans being flipped meant that the passengers would have been looking at all the passing traffic instead of the surrounding scenery. That bit of information courtesy of Ed Rappe, master PRR modeler.

I have only seen a few of the PRR cars, and they were beat up a bit. The flipped floor plans would not be a big issue with me, and I doubt there would be many audible complaints from the tiny passengers.

bob turner
Posts: 12833
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:57 pm

Re: Passenger Cars 2021

Postby bob turner » Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:20 am

Not a NYC expert, but I think this is 20th Century

Image

Golden Gate from about two decades ago. Maybe a flaw or two here and there, but for the price they were absolute bargains, if a bit heavy.

E7
Posts: 8262
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:35 am

Re: Passenger Cars 2021

Postby E7 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:48 am

bob turner wrote:Not a NYC expert, but I think this is 20th Century

Golden Gate from about two decades ago. Maybe a flaw or two here and there, but for the price they were absolute bargains, if a bit heavy.


Looks like 20th Century to me. There were at least a couple of different variations of those cars over the years. They look plenty good to me! Considering the cost of the Wasatch cars, (and they are great) I can't afford perfection. I would be more than satisfied with those NYC cars. The lightening stripe E7's were among my favorites.

E7
Posts: 8262
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:35 am

Re: Passenger Cars 2021

Postby E7 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:57 am

sarge wrote:A guy I knew used to stage photos for that purpose, friends and family members sitting in a coach seat he had, tables with full settings of dining car china and silver.


Don't know whether you recall the late Lisa Marie Tahtaras, (out Utah way, maybe Park City?)) but she said that she had a small photo of herself as a passenger in one of her cars.
Last edited by E7 on Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

up148
Posts: 3969
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:52 am

Re: Passenger Cars 2021

Postby up148 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:18 am

I remember her, wasn't she an elevator repairman and she hurt her back fairly seriously IIRC? Boy that goes back a ways Rich

E7
Posts: 8262
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:35 am

Re: Passenger Cars 2021

Postby E7 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:49 am

Yep, that was her! Started out on the Sunset board, and then Scott pulled the plug on that and most of the people on there went to OGR or here, or both. She only posted on OGR as best I recall. Somewhere along the way her posts stopped, so I did some digging online and found her obit. Sarge's post about putting photos in passenger cars jogged my memory, because as you mentioned, it was quite a while back! A rather sad story!

User avatar
De Bruin
Posts: 903
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Passenger Cars 2021

Postby De Bruin » Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:55 pm

bob turner wrote:Not a NYC expert, but I think this is 20th Century.......Golden Gate from about two decades ago. Maybe a flaw or two here and there, but for the price they were absolute bargains, if a bit heavy.

Yeah nice cars indeed, your's a pre-war 1938 Century 1 DBR-1 Master Bdrm- Obs- Buffet Lounge. Two of these wound up on NdM, the other two scrapped with their round ends salvaged and wielded together for a switch tower at Beech Grove.
Do you recall how much per car these were? I was impressed with the factory paint and the details like the window treatments and antenna, my only knock were the end caps. Various PS pre-war Century and Broadway plans have been done by a variety of other manufacturers too, from kits (Walthers and BCM), extrusions (Kasiner) to imports (think Precision?)
Image
This Kasiner observation, another NYC pre-war plan, is actually a "River" series 2 DBR - 1COMPT - 1DR-Obs-Buffet Lounge that has been lettered incorrectly as an "Island" series car like yours, but note not the same plan. These wound up on the B&O after the Vanderbilt was killed off. I believe Ed Boemer did a very nice article on building the B&O version a few years ago.
Image
I have a Tomar drumhead for this that I need to install and power.
Litigation Crisis Consultant- remediating legal-media issues; mitigating federal, state and local investigations, court orders etc. Your serial felony history, contractual defaults, bankruptcies no big deal.
contact morbo@getoffthehook.com

bob turner
Posts: 12833
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:57 pm

Re: Passenger Cars 2021

Postby bob turner » Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:01 pm

Nice. I have several of those, one from you I think.
The SP Overland paint scheme is similar. I have two Kasiners in that scheme with orange stripes. Not correct, but striking!

Here is a closeup of the NYC, with some flaws. Note the robot inside the obs deck?

Image

User avatar
sarge
Posts: 4811
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:21 pm
Location: Dungfield Manor

Re: Passenger Cars 2021

Postby sarge » Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:40 pm

A little more about the Rivers and the Islands. The ODT in WWII determined the Islands couldn’t be run on the Century during the war as they didn’t meet the criteria for sale-able space, which is what prompted the Rivers to take their place for the duration.

Meanwhile, the Islands were reconfigured forward of the observation section and (bumping the Rivers) operated on the Century after the war until the ‘48 trains entered service with the two Creek series cars. At that point, they supplemented the Creeks as well as held down the Commodore for quite a while.

As things wound down, the Rivers went to B&O, the Islands retired, and the Creeks and fluted observations like the Brook series were plentiful enough to hold what remained.

I seem to remember one of the Rivers is at the B&O museum in Baltimore, and both Creeks survive, at least one is running and certified.

BTW, Pete, I don’t think the 38 cars were done by PSC, but they (both Century and Broadway) were done in naked brass by Sunset back in the ‘80s. God knows I painted enough of them, de-skirted quite a few, they were actually really nice to work with. Mort did Powhatan Arrow cars too.
No-one ever forgets where they buried the hatchet.

User avatar
De Bruin
Posts: 903
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Passenger Cars 2021

Postby De Bruin » Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:28 pm

Thanks Sarge, Sunset; I painted a few of them but couldn't remember the manufacturer (color of the box) They were nice and sturdy as I recall and came with optional full width diaphragms with brass end plates. Of course getting them tight coupled enough to look right meant big problems on curves so .....neat looking though.
Litigation Crisis Consultant- remediating legal-media issues; mitigating federal, state and local investigations, court orders etc. Your serial felony history, contractual defaults, bankruptcies no big deal.
contact morbo@getoffthehook.com


Return to “O-Gauge, 2-Rail, Model Railroading”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests