Erie-Built

[E7]

Prefer the later windshield myself.

[bob turner]

Being banished from OGR, I cannot use the search function. In a thread about brass freight cars, the topic shifted to Erie-Builts, and a link was provided. In reviewing that very long thread, I discovered a link to Jay C's set of three F-Ms, repowered and finished. In that link it discusses the change in car bodies in 1947 that I was unaware of. The entire roof contour is different - and I am now convinced that all the modelers except Overland may have gotten it all wrong.

I discovered by studying photos that the nose contour ahead of the windshield changed quite a bit after they enlarged the windshield from B-17 to something closer to the C-Liner, but until just now was not aware of the changed roof contour.

I am going to save the link to the entire thread in my storage area - meantime, here is a link to page 3:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/the ... sel?page=3

Edit: Here is the entire thread - https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/the ... ilt-diesel

And a link to Gene's blog, where one might study the changed roof line?

https://myp48.wordpress.com/2019/06/25/ ... m-jhshrb2M

[Chris Webster]

Being banished from OGR, I cannot use the search function.

You can use the major search engines (google, bing, duckduckgo, etc) to just provide results from OGR or any other individual website. All you have to do is add site: and the address of the website you want to limit your search to.

For example, to search for erie builts on OGR, type this in the google search box:
erie builts site:https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com

[Jay Criswell]

Bob,

Yeah, they were are fun project and having Lee Turner work his magic was a bonus. I took a bunch of photos but only posted a few. After awhile they all look the same, to me.

Jay

[bob turner]

Me too - after a while, all this stuff looks the same. Now, if there were only a pill . . .

[Jay Criswell]

Very early stages of creating trucks for Sarah's FM Project. Parts will be tweaked and in the end printed in a wax resin that can be burned out and cast in brass. Think lost resin castings.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ ... G_5631.JPG

Jay

[bob turner]

Wow! How did you input data? Line by line? Scanner?

[Jay Criswell]

Bob,

Sarah did all the drawings using Fusion 360. She send me the files and I print them. Following this we review what we have, make adjustments, or tweak the parts and then do a final print is whatever resin we determine is best suited. If the part is to be cast in brass, or whatever alloy, we make a print with a waxy resin that's designed for investment casting.

The printing is all still really new to me and, like you, I consider myself to the blacksmith of the partnership. As I stated somewhere else, Sarah does all the rocket sciencey stuff.

I see 3D printing, along with casting the prints, as another arrow in our quiver.

I don't see 3D as a be all, end all or the answer for everything we do. So much depends on the person doing the 3D drawings.

I think one of my first experiences with this was the drawings Jim Read did for the replacement retainer plates for the Atlas SW7/8/9 models. That must have been 10 years ago.

Jay

[bob turner]

It has incredible potential - I have buddies with really good printers, but I am just wildly unfamiliar with input techniques. My dentist buddy has a scanner, and apparently it takes the place of all that horrible wax in uncomfortable metal trays - yippee! And my buildup of the Skytop Lounge back end is on hold due to way too much procrastination - hoping that someday I can scan the Walthers back end, drop the windows out, and get a lost-resin version in brass.

[DaveJfr0]

Bob,

Sarah did all the drawings using Fusion 360. She send me the files and I print them. Following this we review what we have, make adjustments, or tweak the parts and then do a final print is whatever resin we determine is best suited. If the part is to be cast in brass, or whatever alloy, we make a print with a waxy resin that's designed for investment casting.

The printing is all still really new to me and, like you, I consider myself to the blacksmith of the partnership. As I stated somewhere else, Sarah does all the rocket sciencey stuff.

I see 3D printing, along with casting the prints, as another arrow in our quiver.

I don't see 3D as a be all, end all or the answer for everything we do. So much depends on the person doing the 3D drawings.

I think one of my first experiences with this was the drawings Jim Read did for the replacement retainer plates for the Atlas SW7/8/9 models. That must have been 10 years ago.

Jay

Not trying to thread drift too much, but...

Haven't been on the FB group for a month, but you all are doing some next-level stuff over there with all of the parts collaborations as well as BTO brass diesel projects. I know she isn't here, but props to Sarah to sharing her creations with the community to keep us moving forward as well.

Do you have a ballpark cost of what it would be to have small parts made in brass, assuming I did the CAD work myself (and excluding the printed wax parts pricing)? Specifically rolling stock cut lever brackets? I don't know the parts tree dimensions, but each part would be no larger than 1/4" cubed. I can reach out directly if such knowledge needs to remain a trade secret.

This has been a part I've wanted for a long time, but never really saw made commercially for the masses outside of the carmer cut levers. I typically just glue directly to the body or use lift rings. Not very prototypical.

I ironically just found these while writing this reply... from ASM (https://americanscalemodels.com/index.p ... ct_id=4194), but I'd potentially want to make a slightly different style. No idea when he started to offer these, but these and some other variants are sorely needed. May be slightly cost prohibitive too. I think I may need a 100 pair and that adds up really quickly. I guess I could reach out to see if there is a bulk discount. $5 adds up rather quickly though.

Otherwise, I noticed that Plano and Yarmouth both do their many styles via etched phos bronze, and charge about $1/pair. I'd expect slightly more for O, but they also include the cut levers, though they lack a little detail. I do have experience doing etched phos bronze years ago (prior to Protocraft, I designed and had Morton running boards etched, along with some SOU-specific parts, that I still have, but never really offered for sale.)

If lost wax is ruled out, maybe I'll look at going the etched phos bronze route, assuming the company I used ages ago is still around. I imagine the economies of scale/cost of doing the etched parts would be cheaper than going the lost wax route, even if I wanted to do just one style.

Either way, I'd need to locate some drawings of the prototype brackets first to draw from.

[Jay Criswell]

Dave,

Funny you mention Protocraft because I recently absorbed more of the line into Right-O'-Way. The cut levers and brackets you mention are part of what I now have. You're correct they are Karmer levers, as far as I know.

The cost of casting parts is very difficult to quote at this point. So much depends on what we put on a sprue. Too few parts drive the per piece price up but so does too many. One of the things I do is show David, the owner of the foundry, what we have and get his recommendations. He will try to optimize.

Backing up slightly, the biggest cost is the drawings. If you're doing that portion so much the better.

Do you have a photo or any other drawings we can see?

Jay

[Jay Criswell]

Dave,

Further, I have no secrets.

As far as Sarah and our collaborations, she's been a friend for quite a while now and we just decided to go for it.

The way I see it, I'm just the right guy, at the right time with easy access to one of the best casters in the business. That's he local and a friend kinda made it a no-brainer.

Jay

[DaveJfr0]

Dave,

Further, I have no secrets.

As far as Sarah and our collaborations, she's been a friend for quite a while now and we just decided to go for it.

The way I see it, I'm just the right guy, at the right time with easy access to one of the best casters in the business. That's he local and a friend kinda made it a no-brainer.

Jay

Our corner of the hobby, whether we vocally say it or not, appreciates what folks like you and Sarah are doing for the community.

I have a library of photos on my other PC. I'll be back in front of that next week. However, I don't think its needed since pullman-lib.smugmug.com Jim Kinkaid collection exists and shows many high-res photos of the bracket on all sorts of gondolas, hoppers and some boxcars. I can't easily access that from the laptop I'm on.

Sure ASM has their own casting, but another casting could be done that either includes the most common backer plate, OR just cast the brackets and include a set of photoetched "common/generic" backer plates. (Every hopper/gondola/boxcar/etc. basically had its own plate design that held the bracket.)

The latter approach may get the best results - The installation instructions would be similar to this: The user chooses the plate that best represents the prototype and then uses guide holes in the plate to line up and solder the bracket to the plate. Then solders some length of .02" brass wire through the plate and uses that wire to help secure the plate to the carbody sill. The plate can be used as a drill guide on on the carbody. The tops of the wire are filed down to look like rivets. User has to bend their own cutlevers, but maybe a jig can be created and included.

Example bracket is shown below Norm's gondolas:



Btw, I was looking at 1937 AAR boxcars and that style probably needs its own photo etching that incorporates its early style bracket/plate. Should be simple to craft, but would be useful for all those IM boxcars floating around. Then maybe look to photoetch the trombone style cut levers as well for all of those cushion coupler cars out there.

In any case, I know for a fact I don't have drawings. Let me see what my rolodex can help me dig up there. I also should make a good list of what higher-end RTR rolling stock exists and map those to find commonalities around cut lever bracket/plate design.

[E7]

Sarah,

Why not join MTJ? Love to have you here. Info should be on the index page and Butch H. (UP148) has Lee Berman's phone if you have problems.

Rich Certified computer ignoramus

Long absent because of PC problems, which are still unresolved!