Adams & Son diesel pulling Walthers streamliners 1940's

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Carey Williams
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Adams & Son diesel pulling Walthers streamliners 1940's

Postby Carey Williams » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:51 am

Hello all..
I had fun getting the Adam & Son diesels up and running . Nice heavy nose great for ballast ...if you power the front truck,..if rear is powered nose does you no good, must add weight over rear truck to climb hills . B&O Capital Limited ..E 7 A& B by Adam & Son foundry, chassis & sides by Seibers .. pulling Walthers Streamlined cars all from the 1947-50 period .
Engines 17/64ths tower over the cars at 1/4" scale .

Walthers cars are just modified Hiawatha cars ..so no details have been wasted cluttering them up.
One can see why Kaisner cars were poplar in comparison .

For action packed video please see link



https://youtu.be/J_q8Jc3OZ0A

Cheers Carey

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De Bruin
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Re: Adams & Son diesel pulling Walthers streamliners 1940's

Postby De Bruin » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:21 am

Neat train Carey
The E unit set is gorgeous. I have some of those Walthers 4800 series sides waiting for a project, they're loosely based on pre-war PS plans for the Century and Broadway cars.
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bob turner
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Re: Adams & Son diesel pulling Walthers streamliners 1940's

Postby bob turner » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:55 am

Very nice. That's an E6.
Paint is spectacular. I think the observation has better contours than the Kasiner.

up148
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Re: Adams & Son diesel pulling Walthers streamliners 1940's

Postby up148 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:33 pm

Can you imagine how proud the owner was to run these when they were new. He owned the cats meow and holds up very well. I like the sound caused by the heavy weight, reminds be of my Lionel and AF days back in the 50's. :D

Carey Williams
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Re: Adams & Son diesel pulling Walthers streamliners 1940's

Postby Carey Williams » Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:16 pm

Hello all thank you for your kind words ..it is fun to get them to run .. and imagine the joy and pride they must have brought to the original owner / builder .
Interesting that the early 1946-8 diesels seem to be 17 /64ths ...Adams , Exacta, CLW ( PA"s) ... Adams seem very close to the prewar Pomona's .. which are 17/64ths .
Bob Smith with his PA''s for the MSI layout chose to pull 17/64ths Exacta cars .... so his PA's matched .

Exacta did offer the passenger cars in 17/64ths or 1/4" ..... from what I've found 17/64ths were the "big" ( ha ha) sellers .

Baldwin with their E's introduced in 1948 is much closer to the 1/4" mark .

Cheers Carey

bob turner
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Re: Adams & Son diesel pulling Walthers streamliners 1940's

Postby bob turner » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:19 am

Baldwin models roof is too flat. Adams got it right.

E7
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Re: Adams & Son diesel pulling Walthers streamliners 1940's

Postby E7 » Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:17 am

bob turner wrote:Very nice. That's an E6.


Nope....Look At the headlight. That's an E7 headlight. Look at an E6. There is a flattened area below the lens on E6's. There were a few E7's that had that "slant nose pilot". Southern Pacific had them. B&O had some E's with that pilot......I'm not sure if they were 6's or 7's or both. That headlight on Carey's engine` (though it's not very well done, rolls back under at the bottom of the lens so the engine is an E7. Not to bust you doorstop guys chops, but we all know those castings were not the most accurate. You need to look at the real thing. The upper headlight was tilted back toward the windshield at the top on EMD F's and E7's and E8's and E9's. The EMD E and F noses are some of the most butchered "features" out there by those attempting to model them.

The HO Athearn Genesis nose is the best I've ever seen.

Those Iconic Lionel F units are ALL incorrect as they are vertical, no backward tilt.
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bob turner
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Re: Adams & Son diesel pulling Walthers streamliners 1940's

Postby bob turner » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:31 pm

Not buying it without some proof. You are talking headlight and pilot - ignore those for a minute and find us a prototype shovel nose E7 without the louvers behind the cab door.

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Re: Adams & Son diesel pulling Walthers streamliners 1940's

Postby E7 » Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:59 pm

For a start, Here's an article on all the E's:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_E-unit
The photo is an SP E7, the San Jaquin Daylight that has the "slant" pilot like the E6's

Next a photo of an E6. Note that headlight extends out more than the E7, and the sheet metal below the headlight is in an inverted "V" shape.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/613756255437714208/

A bunch of other E6 photos with the distinctive headlight:
https://www.google.com/search?q=EMD+E6+ ... 80&bih=549

Here's a photo of a Seaboard E7. Note how the sheet metal rolls under the headlight following the circular shape of the lens unlike the E6!
https://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto. ... 33&nseq=10

There were at least 4 types of pilots used on the E7's

1. passenger (went straight down from the over rider)

2. freight (made a slight roll back under the over rider and then went straight down)

3. slant (like on the San Joaquin Daylight and the E6's

4. There was a slotted one made of steel straps on a NYC E7.

Were there others?

If you look at that engine of Cary's it appears to have a round headlight like an E7 with the SLANT pilot. Take note that the photo of the San Joaquin Daylight proves that some E7's had the slant pilot.

The B&O rostered both E6's and E7's.

Cary's engine has a round headlight ala the E7, and that's what I would call it.

I wouldn't try and use ANY of those old "anchors" to try and make a point, Look for pics of the real thing. Opinion.
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bob turner
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Re: Adams & Son diesel pulling Walthers streamliners 1940's

Postby bob turner » Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:00 am

I am repeating myself.

Forget the headlight and pilot. I grant you that Adams and everybody else got both wrong, and that an E7 can have an E6 pilot.

Look only at the slant of the nose from anti-climber to bottom of headlight. Note that the E6 is slanted a whole bunch - it is not subtle!

Note that the "bulldog nose" - far less slant - is used on all F-units, and E7/8/9.

If that is not enough, all E7s had a grillework of some kind behind the front crew door, vertically oriented. The E6 had only the three horizontal screened openings.

Sure, I could be wrong, but you will have to show me an E7 with a slant nose and no grillework behind the door.

E7
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Re: Adams & Son diesel pulling Walthers streamliners 1940's

Postby E7 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:25 am

bob turner wrote:Sure, I could be wrong, but you will have to show me an E7 with a slant nose and no grillework behind the door.


I think Helen Waite has those pictures you need! Suggest you go to Helen Waite. :lol:
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bob turner
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Re: Adams & Son diesel pulling Walthers streamliners 1940's

Postby bob turner » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:19 pm

Here they are:
I did not read every word, but got the impression that these were the very first E7s.
https://nycshs.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/2007q2.pdf

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Erik C Lindgren
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Re: Adams & Son diesel pulling Walthers streamliners 1940's

Postby Erik C Lindgren » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:59 pm

Awesome

sleepmac
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Re: Adams & Son diesel pulling Walthers streamliners 1940's

Postby sleepmac » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:30 pm

Bob, very nice E7 article.

Dan Weinhold

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Re: Adams & Son diesel pulling Walthers streamliners 1940's

Postby E7 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:26 am

There is one interesting thing that has come to light out of this little dust up, and that is there were at least 5 different pilots used on E7's.

Slant-like on NYC in Bob's article and on the San Joaquin Daylight in my post

Passenger-ALMOST all PRR diesels had them, followed the line of the nose sheet metal, somewhat of a misnomer in that not all passenger E's were so equipped

Freight-took a slight backward roll below the anti-climber
before going south, same as above, not used only on freight trains

Slotted-shown in Bob's NYC article slotted as per the name implies....I think I've seen them on Mopac

FT style-Just like on most of the earlier FT's, only ones I've seen on an E7 were present on the PRR's first pair of E7's 5900 and 5901 Not my favorite look
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