Model Train Journal

........this one won’t last long!!! LOL!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313339459562

Petet

Oh gawd.


"8586 SUPER OLD MODEL TRAIN LIONEL

Has soder repairs"

NEEDS soder repairs.

Nice gears. Nice truck equalization.

Be the first on on your block to get this!

Is that a Whitcomb?
How many of these did Lionel make?
I haven't seen everything Lionel made but I have never seen anything like this in any Lionel lists. ???

It doesn't look Lionel or likely any tinplate manufacturers model to me either, thought the raised cab lettering is kind of old-school post-war Lionel-like.
It looks like an early WW2-ish GE 45 toner,
http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr1401/msrm1.jpg

The in board steps over the fabricated trucks are an early GE feature on these, though the truck appearance is beaucoup primitivo, quite distinctive, spit-balling here but perhaps a promotional/factory model from GE to their customer? maybe one Colonel Korn of the 303rd munitions disposal plant again in Nitro WV or some-such.

Seriously though I think this is actually an interesting model and if I saw it on a sales table at show (remember those?) at around half the listed price plus shipping here, it would be going home with me. Thanks for posting this.

I'll take my stab! Looks like a phase 1, 44 tonner, and what was a decent model at one time before idiots wrecked it. The 45 tonner had rods between the wheels on each truck. The loco in Pete's image looks correct, but doesn't look like a 45 tonner.....no rods on the trucks. It doesn't look to me like it was ever a 3 rail engine. ALL my opinion and not necessarily fact!

45 Tonner pics:

https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/ ... tion=click

De Bruin wrote:Seriously though I think this is actually an interesting model and if I saw it on a sales table at show (remember those?) at around half the listed price plus shipping here, it would be going home with me. Thanks for posting this.

Yes, it has a certain charm as a nice bit at the intersection of model RR'ing and folk art. Think that parts of the trucks are early IMP salvage; too bad that the motor is missing; maybe rested laterally in the truck with a worm to each axle; seen a few such drives recently.

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:Yes, it has a certain charm as a nice bit at the intersection of model RR'ing and folk art. Think that parts of the trucks are early IMP salvage; too bad that the motor is missing; maybe rested laterally in the truck with a worm to each axle; seen a few such drives recently.

We need some of the Lionel buffs (if it is Lionel) to show us pics of one that hasn't been mangled. That stamped (or however they did it) lettering is interesting.

E7 wrote:

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:Yes, it has a certain charm as a nice bit at the intersection of model RR'ing and folk art. Think that parts of the trucks are early IMP salvage; too bad that the motor is missing; maybe rested laterally in the truck with a worm to each axle; seen a few such drives recently.

We need some of the Lionel buffs (if it is Lionel) to show us pics of one that hasn't been mangled. That stamped (or however they did it) lettering is interesting.

When did Lionel make brass diesels?

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:When did Lionel make brass diesels?

Not to be flip, but I have no idea what Lionel made. My guess would be it's an old 2 rail piece, emphasis on guess. If you had one of the die hard Lionel collectors confirm or deny that would narrow things down quite a bit. The lettering is the only thing I find interesting.

De Bruin wrote:ISeriously though I think this is actually an interesting model and if I saw it on a sales table at show (remember those?) at around half the listed price plus shipping here, it would be going home with me. Thanks for posting this.

It looks like a early model of a GE 47 tonner. Two of the narrow gauge Oahu Railway & Land Co. units have ended up on the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic:
DRGW.net - Photo of C&TS #19

They are really neat diesels. Their couplers are mounted to the trucks and swing out on curves, just like a lot of toys. My recollection is that the two trucks are actually connected with a pin under the cab.

I'll buy into the 47 tonner, it looks correct.

E7 wrote:I'll buy into the 47 tonner, it looks correct.

OK but who made the model?
Lionel is pretty doubtful.

I think it's early Post War Japanese. During the occupation the early model builder's primary customers were US Armed Forces. Many models built and brought home.

Having US Army embossed along the cab might have been a good sales gimmick. Shoot, we might have had some of the prototypes in service over there during the rebuilding.

All just speculation but it fits with the documentation I've read in the past.

Jay

Jay Criswell wrote:I think it's early Post War Japanese. During the occupation the early model builder's primary customers were US Armed Forces. Many models built and brought home.

Having US Army embossed along the cab might have been a good sales gimmick. Shoot, we might have had some of the prototypes in service over there during the rebuilding.

All just speculation but it fits with the documentation I've read in the past.

Jay

M<akes sense to me.

rogruth wrote:

E7 wrote:I'll buy into the 47 tonner, it looks correct.

OK but who made the model?
Lionel is pretty doubtful.

Billy Rubin