Projects: Skytop, Lionel sideframes, possible 2-8-8-2

[bob turner]

Just planning ahead -

I think my F-M and nascent Bi-polar are going to need a Skytop lounge. Not sure the right thing is eight cars from Sunset, although the easy way would be a four car set. If they offer that, I will skip the daunting task and send them $1200.

But just in case - looking for rudimentary Skytop dimensions. I am thinking "Creek" series.


Lionel - I am volunteering to try and find a solution for the zinc pest that is destroying GG1 trucks on these expensive models. One possible solution is to pull a non-shrinking mold ff a good part and have Stevenson or Valley reproduce it in lost wax. Is this where I ask for "thoughts and prayers?"

Finally - thinking of converting that ugly 2-8-8-2 I showed you last week into a "back-up Mallet." I will entertain you with photos if I ever get off the couch.

[Roy]

Just planning ahead - ...

Lionel - I am volunteering to try and find a solution for the zinc pest that is destroying GG1 trucks on these expensive models. One possible solution is to pull a non-shrinking mold ff a good part and have Stevenson or Valley reproduce it in lost wax. Is this where I ask for "thoughts and prayers?"

I don't know many of the specifics, but am amazed that Lionel has, so far, evaded their responsibility to replace these parts. Leave it to Lionel toadies not to sue, when they really should. This is a perfect application for a class action lawsuit. Lionel should then sue the die casting subcontractor, et al. Bob, please don't even think of doing Lionel's work for them.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

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[Roy]

Does Lionel actually have any responsibility to replace parts after X period of time post sales of items - what are the actual terms of sale?

Merchandise suffering zinc pest is unequivocally defective.

Lionel suing a Chinese producer in China - that'll work.......not.

I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know the specifics of redress. I do remember toys being imported from China a few years ago, that had lead paint. The toy factory boss committed suicide, rather than face execution.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

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[bob turner]

This is a hobby for me. I may get to help out a bunch of seriously burned fellow hobbyists. "Thoghts and prayers" was a poor joke. Lionel really should fix this, but if not, maybe I can learn a few more things about lost wax castings and help a teeny bit.

If it is possible to pull a mold for urethane, it is possible to pull a mold for limited run wax. I am just hoping for hints - I am vaguely aware of mold-making, but have only done very simple parts. The part I will need to make a mold for is Sort of big and complex - copious detail on the sides.

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[Rufus T. Firefly]

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[bob turner]

Not asking anybody else to do it - looking for suggestions. When I get ready to produce a part, I will pay a foundry. Then that foundry can choose whether to offer a part. Foundries are not often hobbies -

[ScaleCraft]

so...what vintage Lionel GG-1 are we discussing? Not sure I have ever seen that on postwar versions.

I would have thought brass sheet superglued to the back and clamped to straighten (and crack but who cares then?) would work. No journal bearing holes.

[R.K. Maroon]

If nobody has already offered, I have copies of the scale drawings of both the Twin Cities and Olympian skytops. Now that I think about it, I believe I have scanned copies. For a bi-polar you would want the Olympian version:



Bob, I will email you this in high-res. Also, let me know if the Walthers model would work. I believe I have more than I need.

Jim

[Roy]

Does Lionel actually have any responsibility to replace parts after X period of time post sales of items - what are the actual terms of sale?

Merchandise suffering zinc pest is unequivocally defective.

So, if you agreed to buy crap, then you are stuck with it. Terms of sale can traverse and permit that to happen. That seems to be prevalent in toys all the time - crap falls apart.......

When it comes to the market for newly manufactured merchandise, there are implied warranties of merchantability. Reference: https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/merchantability. No one would ever buy zamac die castings, if zinc pest was expressly excluded from such a warranty. There are strict protocols for die casting zamac, to assure the castings do not suffer zinc pest. For one thing, you never recycle a defective casting back into the melt. Zinc pest is an entirely avoidable phenomenon, and, where it occurs, it is always due to a manufacturing defect.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

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[ScaleCraft]

Having dealt with PRC MR manufacturers, and knowing obliquely the tendency to ignore contractual obligations and perform shortcuts to increase production (and bonuses), I would fathom a guess that die cast was specified, but bygawd we're gonna make MONEY and do Zamac!

You KNOW they don't care when they buy the cheapest three strand wire they can, and when complaints are it's all one color, they actually spray paint the wire before installation. Comes off in your hands in big flakes.

And then there is regrind.

Plastic version of Zamac Rot.

For evidence purposes (in case they try to sue me AGAIN) In have boxes and boxes, and bags and bags of failed parts suffering from that very malady.

[Roy]

...I am volunteering to try and find a solution for the zinc pest that is destroying GG1 trucks on these expensive models. One possible solution is to pull a non-shrinking mold ff a good part and have Stevenson or Valley reproduce it in lost wax.

I wouldn't be surprised if all of the JLC GG-1 sideframe castings were made in a single batch, and are all suffering zinc pest. You may need to use a scale GG-1 sideframe from a different model for your pattern, and modify the back side to fit the JLC truck.

One thing I noticed from the sideframe photo you posted, is that the sideframe cross section is pretty thin. A lost wax brass casting of the same thickness will not have the rigidity of a zamac die casting, so you may want to thicken it, and/or provide standoffs that extend back to the truck frame. Another idea would be to use a steel backing plate of the appropriate hardness and temper. In fact, the entire part frame could be fabricated of steel, including the mounts to the JLC truck frame, and brass sideframe fascias attached to it.

[2railjon]

“I would have thought brass sheet superglued to the back and clamped to straighten (and crack but who cares then?) would work. No journal bearing holes.”

Makes the most sense of any post I’ve read so far.

Well except for painting yourself blue and dancing widdershins. Are copious amounts of alcohol involved?