Paul Egolf ..in the beginning

[Carey Williams]

Hello O scale world ..
Paul Egolf out of Narberth, Pa could arguably be given credit as one of the fathers of what would grow into the O scale world .

First ad for "Egolf Scale Models" , ( that I've found--so far) is September 1926 ....showing a Reading Pacific , for 3 foot radius, with smoke and reverse ,RTR $50.00 ( for reference ..Lionel, top of the line standard gauge set ,double motor 402 , 4 passenger cars, track and transformer $60,....this could account for the huge numbers of remaining 402's and the lack of Egolf's ) .
1927 Egolf expands his line with a Oil-Electric for $50 and a K4S for $60 ..again with smoke
December 1927 ad ( now located in Philadelphia) announces due to major improvements there will be a 50% increase in pricing come 1928 ...so order now ! send for catalog .15

The .15 catalog (section B) ..(unknown if there is an A out there ) ... contains 3/4 scale equipment K4 from Birch of Detroit ( any of those out there ?) ,also handling the Bassett Lowke..steamer for coast plus postage !..... line of 14" passenger cars to prevent excessive over hang on curves .. steamer line has increased adding a PRR E6, ten wheeler camel back, PRR M1 , ... models operate with center 3rd rail .....quick detachable motors, automatic couplers, lavish detail , real smoke device and a red glow in firebox ...

Egolf was an early promoter of 2 rail ... (about 1932 ) he built track up in sections ..using hard aluminum..( his words not mine) ..providing track for at least on of the layouts at the 1933 Chicago World's Fair .

Paul Egolf was the second subscriber to Model Railroader in 1934 ..Harry Albrecht ( one of Paul's customers ) was #1 ...

Paull passed away in 1962 .

Does anyone have a copy of O scale news Vol 7 No.1 Jan/Feb 1977? there is an article about Paul Egolf within .

Here we have an Egolf K4 .... a little long in the tooth .., wrong tender ...remains of smoke unit with fitting and resistor within , detailed interior cab with electric knob ..I assume for turning on /off smoke and fire box glow ...as wire run from it forward and down ...opening firebox door ... this is a center 3rd rail .. pick up is gone ..but nice shiny spot from where it was ... reverse is missing ...silver paint probably not Egolf's work ..hand lettering on cab .. I'd guess original ... no clue as to what the complete smoke unit looked like
The only other Egolf engine I've seen had the same very skinny big gear drive ....
Any other Egolf pieces out there ????

The K4 will need some love to get it back to rolling .... but a nice example from the dawn of O scale .

Cheers Carey

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[ScaleCraft]

So...what provenance shows this to be that engine?
Sand dome is different. Pilot is different. Smokebox handrails are different. Running board shown is totally different. Air lines are different. Air tank below power reverse is on one, not the other. Belpaire appears different. Steam dome different placements. Bell different placement. One has class lights (in two places?), the other does not. Crossheads are different. It appears rods are different. It appears the boiler handrails are in different horizontal positions. Stack appears to be different.
Oh, and the valve gear and hanger appear to be totally different.

Yes, it's old.

[Carey Williams]

it is an Egolf ...it is not the same engine in the ads ..Egolf's were each hand built to order .... the basic K4 was offered for 5 + years ... changes did happen ..the drive with the skinny gear is the Egolf key ..

have you ever seen another Egolf engine ?

[ScaleCraft]

it is an Egolf ...it is not the same engine in the ads ..Egolf's were each hand built to order .... the basic K4 was offered for 5 + years ... changes did happen ..the drive with the skinny gear is the Egolf key ..

have you ever seen another Egolf engine ?

Hint: If you are trying to prove something, maybe a catalog photo closer to the unit in hand?

Never seen one. Never really want to. I cannot imagine those gears would last a long time in service.

[bob turner]

Oh, come on. Carey is resurrecting history, as best he can do it. He might be, along with Bill Paul, the world's leading expert on Egolf. I had an Egolf coach - bought in Philadelphia in 1962. They were selling a collection of PRR stuff including Icken locomotives. A locomotive was a week's wages, so I passed.

Dan Henon got the coach, but I have the trucks, appropriately stamped "Egolf".

Should that coach still exist, it was card stock, Tuscan with orange window frames, labeled "Pershing Square". A beauty!

[sarge]

I have to throw in with Dave here. If we are doing history, it might as well be good history.

Please don't get me wrong, Carey. I love your enthusiasm, but lately it might be getting the better of your analysis of origin. Much like you are barking up the wrong tree with the NYC ten-wheelers you showed, I believe you are here.

Now that you asked, yes I have seen and owned an Egolf K4, this one with provenance back through the old Harrisburg club. I knew the guy who was running it when the news of Pearl Harbor came over the radio, and there was paperwork from Paul when the original order was invoiced; it was one of a pair. I have only the one photo of it, shown here.

egolf 1.jpg

As you can see, Paul had an excellent eye for the prototype, far better than you give him credit for. Just because something is misshapen doesn't mean it was necessary to be misshapen to be old. Here is a good example of how good these people were.

The loco still exists, though its mate was sold to Dan Henon, sold at his estate sale, and we have never been able to track it. Its still out there somewhere. This one is in the hands of the family of a very very close friend from whom I bought it. I gave it to them as a memento after his death.

The builder of yours could have bought the gear easily; probably a stock worm/worm-wheel set from Boston Gear. One has to remember that most average modelers in that era were building their own, with varying degrees of "good". Establishing a model as someone's work in that time is dam difficult, so its best to assume something isn't what you hope rather than is what you hope, at least until the evidence is strong.

Back to how good Egolf actually was, I also had a couple X29 boxcars he did. They also came from the same source and ran at one time at the Harrisburg Club.

egolf2.jpg

egolf3.jpg

First, you'll notice the accuracy. Old technology to be sure, but these scale out very well and are easily identified for the prototype they are. This particular one was understood to be the first of the X29s he did, hence "test car" stamped underneath with his mark. Given no primary documentation, that story has to be considered apocryphal, but the story goes back to the Harrisburg Club in the forties.

I believe what you have is a scratchbuild from the era. Having owned some of Egolf's models myself, his product was quite a bit better, and very much more representative of the prototype than folks today give makers and modellers of the era credit for. Paul was really good given the tech of the era.

You can take all this for what you think its worth, of course.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I have to throw in with Dave here. If we are doing history, it might as well be good history.

And I have to throw in with Sarge on this as well; that's a seriously crude Egolf.....well beyond any I've ever seen in that department.

[E7]

Does anyone have a copy of O scale news Vol 7 No.1 Jan/Feb 1977? there is an article about Paul Egolf within .

Carey, I know precious little, and care even less about this stuff, BUT, if it is going to be your forte, I would highly recommend you try and accumulate a collection of O Scale News 48/ft., particularly the stuff from when the late Dan Henon was the Honcho. I think you will find a lot of what you like therein.

Rich

[R.K. Maroon]

(deleted double post)

[R.K. Maroon]

I am sorry I am late to this conversation, but I can relate to Carey's position here. I recall a "here's an Alexander tender" thread I posted up one time. I was pretty darn sure but was firmly -- but not unfairly -- called to task regarding my claim. I still have the tender, and it may or may not be an Alexander, but I learned that the burden of proof is on the person making the claim when posting here. This proved to be a good thing, as I eventually learned to appreciate the craftsmanship entrapped within a model more than its pedigree. Not to say I don't like Lobaughs and Ickens and such, but really no more, and maybe a little less, than a good scratchbuild by less well known modeler.

On a side note, I agree with Rich regarding the value of OSN. My brother Pete was the first to point this out to me. I have since acquired a near complete set as well as three more redundant sets, only one of which I still have. Carey, I will contact you separately to see if you are interested. The set is yours for the cost of shipping if you want it. Or maybe you could pick them up when you come down to the Southwest O-scale meet in October.

Ok: if you come down to the Southwest O-scale meet in October.

Jim

[E7]

On a side note, I agree with Rich regarding the value of OSN. My brother Pete was the first to point this out to me. I have since acquired a near complete set as well as three more redundant sets, only one of which I still have. Carey, I will contact you separately to see if you are interested. The set is yours for the cost of shipping if you want it. Or maybe you could pick them up when you come down to the Southwest O-scale meet in October.

Ok: if you come down to the Southwest O-scale meet in October.

Jim

Jim,

You are a GOOD man! That is a VERY kind offer!

Carey, You better jump on that one! There is oodles of good stuff in those issues!

Rich

[ScaleCraft]

I have been pondering this, and the more I think about it, the more I think my initial thought of a NYC K-11 Pacific may have more merit than I thought.

Crosshead is right. Valve gear and hanger is right. No idea on trailing truck, as the one shown is a fresh poser.
Like someone added a Belpaire to a K-11.

Might be worth investigating.

Seems most everything else by Egolf discussed in this thread is marked by the maker. Do we have any such markings on the unit in question?

Yes, he most likely hand built them all. But probably had camels for forming things (like, oh, cab, Belpaire, boiler) and forms, guides for frames and such.

Could he have just beaten every item out with a hammer and sandbag, held them up to the light and said "that's close enough"? Probably not, if he marked every piece.

Stuff to ponder.

[bob turner]

K-11:

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Not finished, but close.

[jwmathews]

Never having seen an Egoff model (afaik), I cannot offer an opinion as to authenticity. As to the appearance of the model, it may be that the builder (whomever it was( was trying to model a Pennsy K4 but didn't have all the correct parts to do everything accurately Not having a full front view, I cannot figure out the intend3d appearance of the pilot.

The placement of the sandboc forward of the bell. while not "typical" of the K4, is not totally incorrect. There were at least 20 or so prototypes built this way. I call them the "Lines West" K4, because this forward location of the sandbox (standard on the L1 Mikad'os) was used on locos operating in areas west of Pittsburgh, where some locations had refueling bunkers located above mainline tracks. This arrangement allowed locos to pause without uncoupling from the trains and replenish the sandboxes & fill their tenders without jockeying around. There are published photos of some of these locos. A softcover booklet by Harry Albrecht on the K4s has a few. The most notable examples of this arrangement are probably the four locos streamlined in 1940-41 for the new coach trains operating to St Louis and "The South Wind: between Chicago & Louisville

[J. S. Bach]

Not finished, but close.

Looking good.