Model Train Journal

I am going to tell this story in two parts. First, the "lesson in custom drives" part. I have an Overland ex-N&W Y3a custom painted in Union Pacific:



This model came to me with no backstory, other than it belonged to somebody's Grandpa. I bought it five years ago, just before I decided that I was more interested in old models than imported brass. I finally decided to sell it and did some touch-up and other "detailing" to get it ready. The last thing I did was to install a jumper between the tender and engine, which eliminated any headlight flicker. I ran it at the last club meet and posted this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR7yuy-Qz8k

A friend in the local club who follows the brass market closely thought it might sell for over $2000, given the rarity of the UP version, the custom paint, and the smooth operation. So I listed this model on eBay two weeks ago for $1975 -- No bids. Relisted for $1475 (which is what I thought it might sell for) -- No bids. So last night I listed it for $1 (the Bill Davis approach). Plenty of bids of course.

In getting this locomotive checked out and ready to sell, I removed the boiler. It had a great drive. I failed to get photos though and so described it in the eBay ad as follows:

This model has a very impressive drive in it, which I believe to be factory (only in that I see no obvious signs of modification). There a very large can motor in the boiler with a large flywheel attached to the rear shaft. The motor, which is larger than a Pittman 9000-series motor, is mounted to a solid machined transfer tower -- much beefier and very impressive compared to the towers in the Overland diesels and electrics (a night and day difference in quality). The lower output shaft connects through universal joints to axle gear boxes on the rear and front drive section.

Somebody named Benjamin in Tucson contacted me through eBay and told me that the description perfectly fit the Doug Cockerham drive for an articulated locomotive. He knew this as he owns four articulated locomotives with Doug Cockerham drives, two he bought directly from Doug at a show and two more he sent Doug later to modify. My first thought was "this might explain why my locomotive runs so well". But how to get confirmation? I checked my archives and sure enough found a five-second video of the chassis running on my test track. I sent it to Jay Criswell, Joe Foehrkolb, and Bob Turner, as I figured one of them would be able to identify it. Sure enough Jay gave the positive ID and went so far as to bet my life on it (uh, thank you, Jay....I think).

I don't like to cancel auctions once they are listed, but I am going to cancel this one, as there is an honest mistake in the listing (even if it is a mistake of omission). I am thinking twice about selling this, but if I do re-list it I will get good photos of the drive this time.

Part Two next
Jim

Hey Jim,

Glad to assist. FWIW, you're probably looking a minimum $2000 for the Cockerham upgrades. $1600, or more, just for the drive and then you add his paint job. He was known mostly for his drives but his paint jobs were pretty good too.

A great find for you.

Jay

Jim, Butch H. has mentioned he owned some Cockerham drives, and might be able to give you some insight.

N&W sold off 6 or 7 Y3's during WWII and The PRR bought (I think) 4 of them and called them HH1's. I have seen a stock Overland version of one of them listed for a tad over 2K (they were essentially unchanged from the N&W version (as far as I know) except for the PRR lettering and the Keystone on the boiler front. Not sure about the UP.

UP (obviously) and ATSF (I think) bought the others.

3rd rail did them for around $1500 a few years back.

Rich

R.K. Maroon wrote:I don't like to cancel auctions once they are listed, but I am going to cancel this one, as there is an honest mistake in the listing (even if it is a mistake of omission).

Perfectly valid reason to cancel -- "error in listing"

And now part two, the lesson in humility:

Here is a photo of a Custom Brass Milwaukee Road Bi-Polar electric locomotive:


The original drives are "Lionel-like" in that a vertical motor drives one axle through a worm and a spur-gear chain powers the other drivers:


The prototype had twelve driver sets in a 1B-D+D-B1 wheel arrangement. As can be seen, the model only powers the D+D portion of the drive. The drives are functional but not known to be strong pullers.

These models seem to be fairly common, so seeing one on eBay is not that big a deal, and in fact one of these was the second locomotive I ever bought when I entered the hobby. But I am a fan of Milwaukee Electrics so I tend to look at every one that gets listed. One came up some time back and there was nothing in the description of particular interest, certainly no mention of a custom drive. But I thumbed through the photos and there it was:


A custom drive! It appeared to be a good installation, probably CLW gearboxes, and all drivers were powered. This was a no-brainer: I bought the one with the custom drive and sold the one I had with the stock drive. I did not break even on cost but the difference was small enough to make the custom drive a bargain. Here's the top view of one half:


I couldn't tell from the bottom shot in the auction listing, but the modification included replacement of the thin bent-sheet chassis frame with a solid machined frame -- a very pleasant discovery and quite the bonus. The drive itself is not a Jay Criswell deluxe but it's beautiful to me. I may with more practice be able to achieve this level of quality but I am a long way from it today.

I'm guessing you can see the lesson in humility coming here. I was very pleased with myself for noticing the presence of the custom drive, and it was hard not to shake my head at the idea of somebody having a custom drive and not even knowing it. Sooooo......fast forward to this week, and here I am on the other side of that equation, selling a locomotive with a custom drive and not even knowing it!.

It reminds me of a line from a song: It's much better to be humble than to have a big hat size

Hmm...it goes better with the music, but I am guessing you get the point.

Humble Pie Jim

I like bipolars. I shall have a diecast one some day. Those do not look like CLW gearboxes.

Bob,

I agree. I was thinking Pearce.

!/4" axles? Brass case? Ball bearings on the input?

Jay

See Jim,

This is where we get humble when we find out you called it correctly. Happens to the worst of us!

Jay

Thread drift time...

I've always thought Humble Pie's "Performance: Rockin' The Fillmore" is one of the all-time great live albums...

OK, back to trains...

Mark in Oregon

Oh yeah, thanks for the compliments, Jim. Haven't shown you my screw-ups, huh?

Jay

Jay Criswell wrote:Haven't shown you my screw-ups, huh?

No, but that might be fun. It has been said that one learns more from their mistakes than their successes, but if true then I should be a genius by now.

I did not go look to see if the gearbox housings say CLW on them, but I did find these two photos:





Seeing these makes me want to go inspect this a little more closely., as I am curious as to how the gearboxes are supported by that frame. It looks like it's a rigid wheelbase setup, which I have never seen with CLW-type gearboxes before. That might make getting around curves interesting.

Jim

bob turner wrote:I like bipolars. I shall have a diecast one some day. Those do not look like CLW gearboxes.

Just curious where you plan to come up with a die cast version. The only other one I have seen apart from Custom Trash was an MTH and I'm guessing that was plastic. Going to burn one of those?

Jim,

Ya know, from the top those look like the old cast brass CLW gearboxes. You may have been correct all along. I've got an old CLW PA kit with that style gearbox. Next time I got to the storage unit I'll check it out.

Jay

I agree - the top looks like CLW. I have some of those metal deals; I'll go look.

My CLW powered Diesels are rigid, and have no problems with curves or superelevation.

Both MTH and Lionel made good-looking Bi Polars in die cast, with baked on finish. I do not care for the Custom Brass version. Powering either is the same amount of work.

I have three distinctly different CLW transmission styles. One is like Adams - a huge casting capturing all three axles. Second is individual brass, but they are all flat on the bottom, and do not have shoulders on top. Third is the standard plastic unit with rounded corners. I am definitely not a CLw expert - after all, I did not know that the Atwater NW-2 was originally a CLW Bronze unit.