1941 City of Los Angeles

[Erik C Lindgren]

http://coloradooscale.org/review-wasatc ... nger-cars/

[De Bruin]

BE-yoot-iful!!!
Amazing amount of both operating and car body detail too.
Thanks to you both for the "skinny" on these!

[E7]

FWIW, Here is a link to the Wasatch website: https://63splitwindow0.tripod.com/

[up148]

Glad Erik jumped in with his photos, as it's so true that "a picture is worth a thousand words" and Erik's photo are professiona,l so it really tells the story. Magnificent models.

[R.K. Maroon]

I have been out of town so much recent months that I haven't gotten much modeling done. However, our club took our portable layout to the local all-scales show this last weekend, and I was able to make time to get a few things off the dead track and onto the rails for the show. This included this all-original Atwater F3 AB set, a "bargain watch" buy from the Steve Neill auction:


I wasn't sure I was going to post this, but a conversation with brother Pete and Brian Scace regarding these prompted me to do so.

There are a few things wrong with this set, so the question arises as to how much effort would you go through to fix a model like this that is otherwise more-or-less complete as is.

First, here is a photo of the prototype (linked from trains.com):


The model needs some obvious and easy things, such as decals on the B-unit and window glazing and vent screens. Additionally, however, note that the grey of the roof comes down the sides into the vent area on the model, but not on the prototype. Additionally, the lettering font is different between model and prototype. The path of least resistance is to find decals for the B that match the A and live with the grey paint as is. The alternative is to remove the decals, fix the paint, and decal both units with the correct set. No guarantee that the decals come off without ruining the paint. So...what to do, what to do?

Note in passing the UP express box car in the prototype consist. Pete coincidentally posted a representative model just today in the Passenger Cars 2021 thread.

[ScaleCraft]

Cab roof handrails, cab door handrails extending over roof, anti-glare green on top of nose, winterization hatch or cover, and center porthole on A unit.

I have a book on NP that describes that porthole and lack thereof....but the same book tends to photographically disprove dates a bit.

[De Bruin]

Cab roof handrails, cab door handrails extending over roof, anti-glare green on top of nose, winterization hatch or cover, and center porthole on A unit......

Impressive Dave, I couldn't have done it better, but knowing Jim is trying to get this one done fast I restrained myself from trying as he has other pots on the stove, still though, if I was doing my full and tiresome OCD routine I'd throw in the passenger pilots.
Not easy to do either in All-Nation World......
(queue Bob T. now....)

[ScaleCraft]

Without lightening up his photo, I could not discern the pilot.
My problem with those Atwater units is, if those are in fact all-original Atwaters, with factory paint, I would never dream of touching them.

I'll have to dig my NP books out again. The claim in one book was there was insufficient filtering on the as-delivered F3's, so EMD provided new sides (makes no sense) with center porthole deleted and louvers over a filter in place. NP also changed out number board placement, added lift rings on nose, changed horns, added second headlight in nose door....all sorts of stuff....and further on in the book is a set of them on a lead track with twin headlights (upper and lower), lift rings, angled number boards....and three portholes on the A. Page 88 of Northern Pacific Railway Photo Archive by John Kelly.


Also have a photo of an FT with twin headlights (vertical) in bottom slot. Page 86

Page 93 shows a pair of RS-3's derailed. Nasty what happens to the equalizers when one derails and they catch the rail.

[R.K. Maroon]

Interesting points all. I should point out that the units pictured previously are not as-delivered. They are in fact technically F7s. They were delivered as "Phase 2" F3s in 1947 and upgraded to F7s in 1953-55. It's hard to tell the difference between the two, but the as-delivered units have chicken wire between the portholes, as shown here:


Note this is a copyrighted image. It can be found online at railpictures.net:
https://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=486232&nseq=151

The winterization hatch and the spark arrestors (seen in the previous photo) were both after-delivery mods. Being Phase 2 units, these never had three portholes. Note the handrails on the units shown just above don't go up over the roof. So many variants, so little time.

Video at the link below. You can hear the gears whine -- I remembered oil for the motor, shafts, and journals, but forgot grease for the gears. As such, I only ran them briefly and at a crawl:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zdurf7g5x4mkcqq/Atwater%20UP%20F3%20AB.MOV?dl=0
Happy to see them run.

One last thing: I did not mean to imply that "all-original" meant factory paint, though I can now easily see that interpretation. I have found no indication in the literature that anybody (Atwater, GMC, or All Nation) ever offered these in other than kit form. All-original Atwater means to me that the A-unit shell has the Atwater builder's plate, the chassis rails are steel (not the later aluminum), the gears in the tower are straight, and that speedometer cables are used to connect the motor to the towers. Rare to find it all there, and rarer still to have it all intact and with the bushing not wallowed out.

Jim

[ScaleCraft]

Interesting points all. I should point out that the units pictured are not as-delivered. They are in fact technically F7s. They were delivered as "Phase 2" F3s in 1947 and upgraded to F7s in 1953-55. It's hard to tell the difference between the two, but the as-delivered units have chicken wire between the portholes, as shown here:


Note this is a copyrighted image. It can be found online at railpictures.net:
https://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=486232&nseq=151

The winterization hatch and the spark arrestors (seen in the previous photo) were both after-delivery mods. Being Phase 2 units, these never had three portholes. Note the handrails on the units shown just above don't go up over the roof. So many variants, so little time.

Video at the link below. You can hear the gears whine -- I remembered oil for the motor, shafts, and journals, but forgot grease for the gears. As such, I only ran them briefly and at a crawl:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zdurf7g5x4mkcqq/Atwater%20UP%20F3%20AB.MOV?dl=0
Happy to see them run.

One last thing: I did not mean to imply that "all-original" meant factory paint, though I can now easily see that interpretation. I have found no indication in the literature that anybody (Atwater, GMC, or All Nation) ever offered these in other than kit form. All-original Atwater means to me that the A-unit shell has the Atwater builder's plate, the chassis rails are steel (not the later aluminum), the gears in the tower are straight, and that speedometer cables are used to connect the motor to the towers. Rare to find it all there, and rarer still to have it all intact and with the bushing not wallowed out.

Jim

Ah. It's all clear now. Except it ain't. I looked and looked, the only photos I found with the grey halfway down the chicken wire or louvers was a model.

Factory Atwater paint:

[bob turner]

I personally would strip and repaint/re-decal. Doubt that I would do all the other stuff. Just me. I shall check "Streamliners" to see if the grey ever went below the roof line on freight units.

[bob turner]

Can you show us where it says "factory paint?"

[De Bruin]

Dave's photo of the AB pair is off of the TCA manufacturers index (which I too like a lot in general)
but note black roofs.
whoops.

[ScaleCraft]

Ya got me, Bob. Except the TCA usually shows best of original.
Read it here:

http://www.tcawestern.org/gmc.htm

[bob turner]

Nope. They did that to me with their Lobaugh tidbit. Used my photos without permission, got a lot of the captions wrong. When I told them they seemed willing to give me credit - so I spent some time straightening out their captions. The best they could do is put a one sentence note crediting me with the photos. I haven't checked lately, but they did promise to straighten it out, but were too busy with important stuff at the time,

What could be more important than straightening out a copyright infringement?

They lift a lot of this stuff off of forums like this, then publish as if it is their work. Boo!