1941 City of Los Angeles

[Strummer]

Boy,this is a great thread...where do you guys find this stuff?

Mark in Oregon

[aww]

Jim aka Marroon

Here is a picture of two sideframes, one is the pattern, bottom,and the other, top, is a silicon bronze copy that I cast here, sand. I have enough for 4 cars (16) and they are your's, free if you can use them on your project. All are drilled and tapped for bolsters and drilled for axles. I also have some in aluminum and some "hat" sideframes in aluminum. I sold a batch on ebay of the "hat" type in bronze recentlly to Art Hayes in OK City and he might sell them to you.

Allan

[Jay Criswell]

Jim,

Just a couple of thoughts from a lowly neophyte. It appears to me your NWSL drive components are wearing excessively. Recently I've observed this more frequently than I'd like. I'll attach some photos of an example given to me by a friend. I believe there are numerous causes for such wear, locos that are too heavy, poor alignment, lack of lubrication and some type of plastic, other than delrin, that doesn't hold up. I've noticed the recent components from NWSL have a different look and feel to them. I guess only time will tell if the new versions hold up better.





Just a thought so take it for whatever you think it's worth. How about installing the motor level (parallel with the frame) and installing Serv-O-Link sprockets and chain to connect from the motor to the gearbox? You could eliminate the extreme angle you're dealing with right now and the sprockets and chain will hold up a little better.

I'll attach more photos of the NYC Electric. Check out the look of the plastic cups and balls. Hopefully, these last a long time. They do have a couple of things going for them. Reduced RPMs , correct alignment, a lighter loco and lubrication. Once again, only time will tell.




Jay

[R.K. Maroon]

Much to respond to here.

...where do you guys find this stuff?

Mark, so far everything I've shown has come to me through friends I met here on the forum. Other pieces, still be posted, came from eBay or elsewhere.

Here is a picture of two sideframes, one is the pattern, bottom,and the other, top, is a silicon bronze copy that I cast here, sand. I have enough for 4 cars (16) and they are your's, free if you can use them on your project. All are drilled and tapped for bolsters and drilled for axles. I sold a batch on ebay of the "hat" type in bronze recently to Art Hayes in OK City and he might sell them to you.

Allan, that is a generous offer and I may indeed take you up on it. Once I get a little bit further into this thread I will post photos of the passenger cars in question and we'll see what I've got in the way of trucks. By the way, I saw that batch of Napoleon Hat sideframes go by on eBay. Now I know why Arthur has been asking me if I need any.

How about installing the motor level (parallel with the frame) and installing Serv-O-Link sprockets and chain to connect from the motor to the gearbox? You could eliminate the extreme angle you're dealing with right now and the sprockets and chain will hold up a little better.

Jay, I agree completely that the motor needs to be leveled out. I am going resist the temptation to dive into that one for now though and focus on the COLA units. I imagine that many can relate when I say that distraction is one of my downfalls -- in particular starting another project (and another) before the first one is complete. By the way, I could look at your Neophyte drives (is that a brand name?) all day long. They run counter to my preservationist bent, but I sure like them.

Jim

[bob turner]

I use those horney balls too, but prefer the Toyota #O hose, except between locomotive and tender. When I don't have room for the hose, I use speedometer cable and slip joints.

Here is the secret, if you don't want to use the step-down:

Get a brass cradle, and screw it to the floor at an angle such that the centerline, extended, from the motor will exactly cross the centerline, extended, from the gearbox.

Adjust the motor on the cradle so the distance from that intersection to each shaft is more or less the same. Clamp the motor (literally; sometimes I use a worm seal clamp) and install the Toyota hose. Noiseless, lasts a long time, and can handle that angle. Very little power loss.

What you must avoid is the "S" turn in the hose. Even the horney balls do not like the "S" turn.

[webenda]

Jim,

Just a couple of thoughts from a lowly neophyte. It appears to me your NWSL drive components are wearing excessively. Recently I've observed this more frequently than I'd like. I'll attach some photos of an example given to me by a friend. I believe there are numerous causes for such wear, locos that are too heavy, poor alignment, lack of lubrication and some type of plastic, other than delrin, that doesn't hold up. I've noticed the recent components from NWSL have a different look and feel to them. I guess only time will tell if the new versions hold up better.

Jay

You have good eyes Jay and thank you for the analysis (especially the photos of worn couplings.) I could not see the wear on Maroon's drive parts until I enlarged a portion of an image.



The new NWSL parts might be Delrin®. Just specifying "Delrin®" is not enough. There are many grades of Delrin® each with different characteristics and those grades can can be modified with different technologies, such as Teflon® PTFE, silicone, Kevlar® aramid resin or chemical lubrication, to reduce wear or friction. Have you notified NWSL about the possibility of poor quality of their current drive parts?

Reference: http://www.dupont.com/products-and-serv ... astic.html

[bob turner]

When Raoul ran it, it was Celcon Acetyl, which I think is an engineering grade of Delrin. I think he went to a glass reinforced plastic for gearbox housings, after getting some distortion.

I have not had a failure like the one pictured, but then I do not run much, and the angle is zero except when on a curve.

[bob turner]

I think this one has the most miles on it, which isn't saying much. It is in a triple-shot set of 0-6-0s, and is usually slipping while the other two pull. That is the exact same NWSL part.

[Jay Criswell]

Wayne,

A couple of things before this gets out of hand. I know exactly what Delin is and I fully understand it's a brand name but I've found if I use another term many folks don't know what I referring to. Similar to xeroxing a copy. I mean make a copy, the machine I use will probably be anything other than a Xerox.

Am I going to contact NWSL? No, the way I see it, there are too many variables and to say they produced a faulty product would be disingenuous at best and dishonest at worst. I believe, with my limited experience, in the correct applications, what they produce is fine.

Just my thoughts.

Jay

[webenda]

Wayne,

No, the way I see it, there are too many variables...

Just my thoughts.

Jay

You are too conservative, or polite.

[webenda]

...this one... ...is usually slipping while the other two pull.

Fill the boiler with Q-metal.

Ok, I was half joking, iron, zinc, tin, etc. weights will do. Does it have added weight in the boiler? My first HO engine was the Mantua Booster kit. The engine was cast in thick zamack--it needed no added weight (plus I never had enough cars to make it slip.) The recommended weight (from MR Magazine) for an engine was the amount that caused the electric motor to draw current equal to the manufacturer's maximum current specification with drivers slipping. Is anything like adjusting engine weight to maximum motor current done with engines like Maroon's City of Los Angeles?

[R.K. Maroon]

Wayne, I will venture to say that many a doorstop in good operating condition will pull more cars than practical for most layouts with no adjustment. I say this because I have often heard the telling of 50 car trains, pulling nails out of 2x4s, etc. None of that is practical for me. In the case of the COLA E6s, the issue for me is getting enough distribution of pull power across as many of those small worm gear sets as possible so that the gears last for some decent amount of time. Extra weight for the heck of it works against that goal.

Jim

[Jay Criswell]

Wayne,

Thanks! I've been accused of the first many times but never the second.

Jay

[ScaleCraft]

Personal Turner, here...oops...opinion.
Don't think I'd down on NWSL. I've used their stuff. Works great in half zero.
I tried the .6mod when it first came out (like, we waited and waited..they didn't even have the bins stocked right).
Supposed to be "the answer".

I determined the issue is mass. Again, Turner....errr...Opinion. Half Zero, light plastic 0, no problem. Put one in a #1 gauge loco, six to ten cars down a 4%, 150' long grade, and the dogbones will end up in short order looking like that.
In six months, we went through 3 gearboxes. 5 or six sets of drive shaft kits, three Sagami cans, and I gave up.
Chassis is still intact, sitting in a box in the attic of my shop.
I see the box every once in a while and get the shakes just thinking about how bad they were in that application.
Joe probably got tired of replacing those dogbone sets, which is why it just sat.

[R.K. Maroon]

Amazing how quickly a thread drifts....not that I mind. I am in fact glad for the polite and respectful conversation (when it happens).

As mentioned, the COLA and Chrome E6 units arrived about a year ago from Allan and Dave respectively, and I already had the extra motor and tower from Bob. But there the project sat for lack of a clear path forward. Then this appeared on eBay last month:





Since we have another thread going about that $650 E6AB set, I will tell you for comparison that I paid $200 for this guy (and an odd-duck old hopper). This looked from the photos to have a mostly complete and intact original drive, and I was not disappointed:







One thing: Many will recall that a wound-field motor will runs in only one direction no matter how DC is applied to the track (That is, reversing track polarity does not reverse the motor). From the factory, this unit probably had a selenium rectifier to reverse the field, but this one arrived with no rectifier (and no manual switch, and no sign that a manual switch was ever installed). Actually, if you are running a passenger train round-and-round (which I do), then having no reverse may not matter. I will come back to this topic in some future post as I consider how to wire the AB set for best operation.

At any rate, I did not bid on this guy thinking it would trigger the COLA project, but once it arrived it did just that. I will explain that next, but I need to take one more photo.

Jim