MMW at Chicago

[bob turner]

I agree with Rich.

Further, while I am a true believer in O Gauge 17/64 Scale, boiler bellies, Piper Cubs, and Mustang convertibles, and will passionately extoll the virtues of each, I have zero desire to perpetuate my beliefs by proselytizing. I have no need for others to enjoy my hobbies.

But as an art form, an MMW model is possibly an excellent addition to our hobby, and I applaud his efforts. I still stand amazed at the passion of his proponents, but that has nothing to do with the art itself.

Opinion.

[up148]

Bultmann's problem was his vaunted drive sucked. It was impossible to get smooth slow running with that clutch engaging and disengaging. They worked so so with a heavy train at speed but no switching. The other problem was the 1 to 1 gear ratio and 24 volt motor, which made it impossible freeze the clutch and run slow, no torque. This was on DC. Add a DCC decoder and it got so much worse as the back EMF got all confused when the clutch was slipping before lock up. I know because I have one and fooled with it for hours. It's really a shame as it is an exquisite model.

Don't believe me, ask Jay.

Peter

I didn't know that. Never ran one of his locos and since he demanded to install his own drives, I just assumed they were better than imports and as good as they got. Saddens me to learn they were problematic. The models are truly exquisite on detailing and are well built. Did Jay have a fix?

BH

[Chris Webster]

Bultmann's problem was his vaunted drive sucked. It was impossible to get smooth slow running with that clutch engaging and disengaging. They worked so so with a heavy train at speed but no switching. The other problem was the 1 to 1 gear ratio and 24 volt motor, which made it impossible freeze the clutch and run slow, no torque.

Are you confusing Henry Bultmann (Car & Locomotive Shop) with Stu Klienschmidt, who made drives with clutches in them?

[Jay Criswell]

Peter,

I think Chris is right. Stu made the clutches. The results can be debated to no end. For me personally, I've never seen one that worked as promoted or advertised. Apparently, others have observed something different.

Henry was one of a kind. His models stand for themselves. He did have special motors produced by Pittman that were like no others I've observed. He also had special gearboxes produced to mate up with motors. From what little I can recall, he told me they produced higher torque, at lower voltage and RPMs than conventional designs. This created a scenario where his gearboxes were a higher ratio than what we're used to seeing.

My biggest issue is trying to find a decoder that will work with his design. I've been told someone did, I sure as hell couldn't.

Bottom line, Stu's didn't work out for me, Henry's still awesome after all these years.

Oh yeah, backing up slightly. My old Max Gray 4-10-2 ran far better than my brand new C&LS model of the same loco but keep in mind, the MG wasn't stock. If I could get back my C&LS 4-10-2 I would. Nicest model I've seen produced. Erik's are great too......and he's a friend.

Jay

[herronpeter]

Jay and Chris, you are 100% correct. My aged brain tends to "combine" things...........as well as "forget"!!

I wrote this in March of 2017:
---------------------------------------------------

Re: Diesel Locomotives of the GSL

Edit
Report this post
Quote

Postby herronpeter » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:26 am
Jay, I have to agree with you about the "Stu Kleinschmidt drive", which in my humble opinion is a great idea that does not work (unless you like to pull heavy trains at speed). Switching, forget it. I acquired a BL2 with this drive in it and while lovely to look at, was impossible for me to get to run slowly with the few cars my layout will handle. I tried a decoder and it was worse as the poor decoder's BEMF circuitry could not keep up and went crazy with all the changes it detected when the clutch would engage and disengage! I tried locking the clutch (with a piece of cloth so as not to damage it) and I had a locomotive that went from a stop to 6 smph in a blink as it was a 1 to 1 drive. I even tried what I thought was genius-I added some of that Sticky Lube the RC car guys use in their differentials-slightly better but still jerky getting going. I cleaned out all the lube and reassembled it and returned it to the seller for a refund. Have since acquired another BL2 with the stock OMI tower and flywheel drive and it runs like a watch. Unless OMI produced an earlier run of BL2's with their poor tank drive, I can't understand why the new drive was installed in the one I originally got.

Live and learn.

Peter
------------------------------------------------------------------
Now back to the Bultmann drive experience: It WAS the decoder problem mentioned by Jay that I encountered. The problem again was the 24 volt motor and the 1 to 1 gear ratio played havoc with trying to get a smooth slow speed. Matt Forsythe has a video of an SP model he painted and installed Dcc and sound. Here is the video link:

https://youtu.be/uR6LRT2uEqU

He is the only person who "tamed this beast" with a decoder. Perhaps he could comment on how he did it.

I still have my C&LS RS 32 if anyone is interested.

Peter

"Of all the things I've lost over the years, I miss my mind the most"

[up148]

Peter,

I think Chris is right. Stu made the clutches. The results can be debated to no end. For me personally, I've never seen one that worked as promoted or advertised. Apparently, others have observed something different.

Henry was one of a kind. His models stand for themselves. He did have special motors produced by Pittman that were like no others I've observed. He also had special gearboxes produced to mate up with motors. From what little I can recall, he told me they produced higher torque, at lower voltage and RPMs than conventional designs. This created a scenario where his gearboxes were a higher ratio than what we're used to seeing.

My biggest issue is trying to find a decoder that will work with his design. I've been told someone did, I sure as hell couldn't.

Bottom line, Stu's didn't work out for me, Henry's still awesome after all these years.

Oh yeah, backing up slightly. My old Max Gray 4-10-2 ran far better than my brand new C&LS model of the same loco but keep in mind, the MG wasn't stock. If I could get back my C&LS 4-10-2 I would. Nicest model I've seen produced. Erik's are great too......and he's a friend.

Jay

Whew!!!! I just sent mine off to Lee to weather and thought I owned a 100% model.

When Peter made his comments I thought "Oh Well, I guess I have a mantle queen instead of runner". Good to know it's everything I assumed it was.

BH

[Jay Criswell]

Peter,

Please tell me about the RS32. I have a friend that might be interested.

Jay

[E7]

Here is the subtitle from the video in Peter's post with the decoder type for anyone interested:

CL&S ALCo RS32 equipped with the QSI Titan decoder, running the newest ALCo 251 V-12, Q3 Emulation software. Not sure if ALL of Henry's stuff had the same drive, but I'm guessing it did.

Installer (as Peter noted) is Matt Forsyth

http://mattforsyth.com/

Rich

[E7]

"Of all the things I've lost over the years, I miss my mind the most"

Peter, I sure know that feeling!

Rich

[up148]

Here is the subtitle from the video in Peter's post with the decoder type for anyone interested:

CL&S ALCo RS32 equipped with the QSI Titan decoder, running the newest ALCo 251 V-12, Q3 Emulation software. Not sure if ALL of Henry's stuff had the same drive, but I'm guessing it did.

Installer (as Peter noted) is Matt Forsyth

http://mattforsyth.com/

Rich

Rich,

the link goes to Matt's blog, but where is the installation of the decoder?

BH

[E7]

Rich,

the link goes to Matt's blog, but where is the installation of the decoder?

BH

Butch,

That link was just in case anyone wanted to contact Matt, who from everything I see does excellent work. I doubt he has instructions on installation posted. I am pretty certain the manufacturer would have installation instructions included when you buy one. I've never looked into it because my game plan is dead rail. OGR might be a good place to ask.

I did dredge this up off the net:

http://shedaker.wixsite.com/shedaker/titan-ho-documents

It has HO and Large scale sections

Hope this is helpful!

Rich

[up148]

Thanks Rich,

I've seen some videos on Matt's website in the past showing some locos he was running. He seems to do excellent work. I just thought there might be a video I missed about the running of this SP 4-10-2 loco after the installation, not anything about how to do it.

BH

[herronpeter]

I have a lot of QSI decoders and knowledge about them as well as all the sound files. That Shedaker site is no longer as QSI solutions is defunct.

Send me an email or PM with any questions you may have about QSI. They actually are remarkable decoders. The stereo function is well suited to steam with a speaker in the smoke box and another in the tender.

Peter

[E7]

Butch,

There is a video out there (might be on OGR, among other places) where Matt did an installation on a C&LS PRR Train Master. It looked pretty impressive to me. Looks like Peter is the go to guy for info!

Rich

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/v ... tion=click

[E7]

Added You Tube clip