Decals on Steam Locomotives

[bob turner]

About as well as it sticks to anything.

There isn't any wax in Future Floor Wax. And they changed the name to pledge Floor Care Finish - Multi-Surface. Just to confuse us.

I was skeptical - Floor Wax?

There are modelers who are far more serious than any of us - my brother-in-law is one of them, and builds models that are on display in the Smithsonian. They take small plastic airplane models and go absolutely nuts with them. Look them up - they call themselves IPMS, which sounds like a bunch of angry women, but instead it is a large organization of rabid modelers. It is these guys who discovered the "Future".

Anyway, the stuff can be sprayed, although I have lousy luck spraying water based stuff, and it can be laid on thick with a Q-Tip. You can get streaks that way, so be careful. It has some viscosity, and seems to seal the edges of decals.

But Sarge is correct - any gloss clear coat is appropriate for water-set decals. Let the gloss set up, then if you want a dull or matte finish, do that as a last step. Chalk weathering requires a matte finish.

[sarge]

Bob:

I probably wasn't clear, but if a colour coat results in a gloss finish such as Scalecoat, then you are ready for water-slide decals as you say.

With perhaps more clarity then, no matter the maker of the finish used, a gloss finish for waterslide/decals and flat for dry transfers, whether by paint type or by an appropriate clear finish, is the goal. Only then are you ready to move on to that next step of lettering.

[bob turner]

I thought you were clear - we agree.

And for Jim - Texas and Pacific, or MoPac, might be a better fit. Be sure to check with those guys who sell older decals first.

For doorstops, often a skilled application of gloss rattle can paint can do just fine. It has to go on so it dries glossy, yet with no runs or sags. So do the tender half at a time, sunny side up. Runs have a harder time of it on horizontal surfaces. Same with the cab. The rest of the boiler can be flat from the get-go.

Easy-peezy. Er, Opinion.

[R.K. Maroon]

Thanks to all that responded. Bob's comments about the T&P or MoPac being a better choice for this tender are based on his knowledge of the matching locomotive:







I posted this long ago on a long-gone thread. It is a GMC / All Nation Pacific boiler atop a Hines / Pearce Tool chassis. The model was dolled up to resemble a Southern Pacific 2-8-2. The pilot is a Ray Waller item (it has the name "Waller" cast into it). This was not operable on arrival and I decided to get it going and either sell it or keep it and run it. The issue for me is that the model more closely resembles a USRA light Mikado than it does any SP locomotive (front pilot notwithstanding). I am not sure what to do with it. I have restored the drive and it runs like a champ. I also installed a directional constant brightness circuit for the front headlight. Here are my choices from here:

1. Sell as is (running but needing finishing work)
2. Touch up and re-decal as SP. Run for a while and then sell.
3. Replace front pilot, paint and letter for other railroad. I think MoPac and Rock Island had prototypes closer to this than T&P, but I would need to do more research. I would probably keep this longer if I put that much effort into this, but even so I would probably sell it eventually.

The reason that all options eventually lead to selling this is because I have found that if I have a stable of working locomotives to run then I am less inclined to work on the locomotives that don't run (the dozens and dozens of doorstops sitting under my workbench). So earlier this year I decided to initiate a "catch and release" program. This involves making a model I own operable and presentable, running it for a while (to skim the cream of satisfaction from the effort), and then selling it. It works for me. I don't miss the models I have sold so far and it has egged me on to work on other models, such as the Mikado in question.

Of course, certain models I will keep -- the creme dela creme, so to speak.

Jim

edited to update links to photos

[bob turner]

This is the same mechanism, under a Pearce boiler. Per Mitch's suggestion, the rear tender truck has been moved aft since htis photo was taken.

Now I am having second thoughts - I have a spare All Nation Pacific boiler. I could duplicate Jim's model, and move the motor from the tender into the firebox.



Nah - too much work. I have three Challengers to finish for 2016.

[R.K. Maroon]

Thought I would bump a few more posts. I am bumping this one in particular as I am just now getting some experience with paint and decals, and it seems like a good reference.

Jim

[R.K. Maroon]

I have made a bit of progress getting some experience painting and lettering steam since I last bumped this thread. Those with an O Scale Trains subscription may recognize this photo and the model therein:



This is a Pearce Tool (ne Hines) USRA 0-8-0 with an Varney/GMC/All Nation short USRA tender. The model belongs to Janet Wehrle, who bought it as a kit for her late husband Allan many years ago. It was the first locomotive kit built by Allan. Somehow the original tender got sideways, and I offered to provide a tender. Sarge provided the kit (thank you again). The lettering is dry-transfer. A&JW stands for Allan and Janet Wehrle. The paint and lettering on the locomotive are Allan's original work.

Those familiar with the tender model may remember that it has a "tab and slot" design. I filled the slots in the sides after assembly using model filler. This caused a bit of bleed-through when painted. It doesn't show in the photo but it's clearly there when viewing the model directly. It may have been that I simply should have let it dry longer before priming, but the experience has left me a little gun-shy on model filler. I have since used industrial epoxy (Hysol or similar) for filler and have not had a bleed-through problem.

Jim

[R.K. Maroon]

Here is another post from a year ago. This one covers the stripping, painting, and relettering of a tender, with specific questions about to get the decals to sit tight but still getting a dull finish in the end. As a reminder, here is the tender in question:



I have actually made some progress on this project. I started by dipping the tender to strip the paint. I have found that acetone or lacquer thinner (which are very close to each other chemically) work very well to remove paint on old models. It is not perfect, however, and some amount of residual often remains. As a side note, I bought a pair of deep stainless steel steam table pans with lids for dipping. These are available at the local restaurant supply or on-line (I think I got mine on eBay):



You can see the tender in the photo above as it came out after dipping. The front casting in particular held a lot of paint. The next stop was the media blasting booth. The brass sheet used in this model is pretty thick, so I wasn't as worried about beating this one up in the booth as with other models. Still, I only used as much pressure as needed to get the job done, and never blasted directly into the sides or top -- always at a glancing angle:



This is near-ready to paint (it needs a bit if resolder work at one seam). I would have finished it by now but I have another tender in similar shape so I am going to get it cleaned up and paint both at the same time. This is not the project presently on my bench, so it will be a while until the next report.

Jim

[E7]

Jim, Not trying to 'derail' your post, but how about the same route you went on Janet Wehrle's tender, dry transfers? I don't know the pros and cons of them versus decals, maybe you could expound on that a bit?

Thanks,
Rich

[R.K. Maroon]

Rich -- I indeed had good success with the dry transfers on the Wehrle tender, but it was a custom lettering job done one letter at a time. If I could find dry transfers appropriate for the tender I would not hesitate (unless I had to spell "Southern Pacific" one letter at a time). As it is, I have a good supply of decals, so I want to keep that door open.

In regards to road name, I am leaning toward lettering the locomotive Rock Island:



Note the solid pilot and the oil-bunker tender. The valve gear doesn't match though and the unit in the photo appears to be longer than the model (when scaled), but I can live with that if true (will do some research). The domes appear reasonably close, which is one of things I tend to notice when comparing models to prototypes. As another consideration, there is a Rock Island modeler in the club who has no steamer at present who I am guessing would be more than happy to give this one some run time if I were to show up with it.

Jim

[bob turner]

Just move the cab back. Pilot is easy. I too would go Rock Island. That trailing truck can be Adams or CLW.

[R.K. Maroon]

That trailing truck can be Adams or CLW.

Bob, I can't tell if the trailing truck in the photo is Delta, USRA, or otherwise. The model has a Delta truck but I do have a very nice Cal-Scale USRA truck:



I need to find a friend with a Rock Island steam book or just buy one myself.

Speaking of Cal-Scale, I am correct that this was Bruce Bechtold's company? Anybody know any history on that?

Jim

[bob turner]

Not sure on Bruce - probably. No, the truck in your photo is a modified Hodges truck. Photo soon. Well, I will e-mail it to you.

[Jay Criswell]

No, Bruce worked for Kemtron and then CalScale though he may have been a partner in the latter. The line he started was the The Backshop. After Bruce died The Backshop was taken over by Jerry Gresham, and later Dave Braun (SIC) and now Keith Wiseman. Not sure but he may have done the castings at the CalScale foundry (current location of Valley Brass & Bronze). John Houlihan (Irish Tracklayer) was a good friend of Bruce's and they used to hang out.

Jay

[R.K. Maroon]

Thanks, Jay. I appreciate the response. I asked because the trailing truck came in this box:



It has Bruce's name on it but no other company name. The instructions inside the box say Cal-Scale:



The instruction sheet does not have Bruce's name on it, so I thought at first it might be a mix-and-match, but the part number is the same. So maybe Bruce sold the Cal-Scale line under his own name at some point?

Bob, I thought this was a Hodges truck as well when I saw it, but the instructions say it's a U.S.R.A. type and the instructions match the truck (the journal lids indeed open -- this is a nice truck). I had not heard of a U.S.R.A. type truck so I tried to look it up on the internet and but had no luck finding anything on it. It's a mystery to me.

Jim