PSC Challenger and Tender Water Hatch Dimensions

[up148]

I've been looking unsuccessfully for the physical dimensions of the UP centipede tender water hatch for the Jabelman type Challenger. I bought a complete set of coal to oil conversion parts for a FEF-3 from Dennis Mashburn maybe 30 years ago. The hatches are slightly smaller in all dimensions (maybe 8%) than the PSC hatches on the model. Dennis's are opening hatches and honestly nicer castings than the PSC and I would like to use them. This could be the difference between an FEF tender and the Challenger tenders, I don't know.

So, I'm looking for suggestions on where to find a source for blueprints, line drawings or ??? of this tender showing the actually dimensions of the tender hatches.

I have several Challenger books, but none show drawings or blueprints.

[big bad jim]

Butch,
The UP Historical Society has offered DVD's of technical drawings for the Big Boys and Challengers in the Company Store on their website. They appear to be unavailable at the moment while formatting of the content is being updated. I know somebody that has previously purchased the DVD's, and I've asked if he can verify the dimensions that you are asking about. I'll report back with any information he can provide. One question is whether the DVD files include the tenders, or if they are specific to the locomotives. I'll let you know what I find out.

In the meantime you might contact the UPHS to see if the DVD's will become available again anytime in the near future.

Jim

[big bad jim]

Butch, I sent you a message through the board.

Based on the information I have now, you will need to decide which road number and therefore which class of Challenger you want to model, as there were several classes of centipede tenders and the water hatches vary incrementally among them. There were also several classes of 23C tenders found on the FEF's. However, it appears that the only distinction between the water hatches on the various 23C and 25C tenders are the heights above either the lower or upper decks. The length and width dimensions do not appear to change from one class to another. That would imply that at least those two dimensions should be the same for both the PSC and Mashburn versions if they are correctly scaled, without regard to which locomotive the castings were intended for.

Jim

[up148]

Thank you Jim, this is "exactly" the information I was looking for.......I sent you an email moments ago.

I thought I had a UP tender book once or some printing that explained the differences in the UP tenders, but I can neither find it or remember what it said.

As soon as they are available I'll need to buy these DVD's. I used to be a member of the UPHS and went to the website a lot. But in recent years I let it lapse and haven't visited.......got to do that.

MTJ comes to the rescue again......there's a wealth of modeling and prototype information hidden on this forum....you just need to tap into it.

You're a lifesaver Jim...thank you!

Butch

[big bad jim]

Glad I could help.

The drawing DVD's apparently do include drawings for both the locomotives and tenders, plus other details. There are sets for both the early and late Challengers, plus the Big Boys. At $40 per disc, I think they are a bargain, and hopefully they will be made available again.

Jim

[up148]

I agree Jim. I got off my lazy butt and looked through my books, magazine and reference material (way more than I remembered) and found lots of information, but nothing with dimensional drawings.

By the way, it appears Dennis Mashburn's castings are closer to scale and cleaner than those on this PSC model. Kudo's to Dennis.

Hinges for hatches and turret covers: I bought some hinges from PSC a few months ago, but they're generic and not accurate for my need. The small ones are the right size, but I'll have to modified them and they will still be incorrect. Only a UP modeler would know, but if I'm doing all this work, I want it to be as correct as possible.

A good friend added hinges to his KTM/USA FEF-3 that he bought from from KEY (he was a dealer at the time) many decades ago and they're spot on. So, if anyone has any small working hinges or KEY hinges in their stash of parts, that they care to sell.............I'm a buyer.

[up148]

It's been a little dead around here lately, so I'll share a discovery I made today. As I stated before, I want to make some of the details functional (hatches, smoke box door, vents, etc.), plus give it a removable cab. But, making the cab removable was really above my skill set and was a project I wasn't really looking forward to attempting.

But, after being told by another modeler that he thought the cab was factory removable I removed the two screws under the cab and he was right. Typically these screws hold the crew seats in place like on other models I've I've owned. BUT, on this model, it holds the cab in place and once the screws are removed the cab slides backwards and off. Obviously I was thrilled.

[ScaleCraft]

Is the dark grey oxidized solder or JB Weld?
Ran into a GEM 0-4-0 in H0 back in the 70's, new, put together with epoxy.
And the ONLY thing that held the worm and worm gear engaged was weight of the boiler. And the boiler was steel, painted "brass". They "insulated" the open-frame motor with a piece of Scotch tape draped over the brushes.

[up148]

That is oxidized solder which seems to be a calling card of KTM built locos. I've seen it quite a lot, but only on the KTM models I've owned.

Yeah, I've bought some models that had details reattached by glue. If only our models could talk.

[86TA355SR]

Butch,

What a beautiful model. Each new picture you post impresses me with the attention to detail the importer included. With your updates it’ll be one of the best Challengers ever. Look forward to how it progresses.

Aaron

[up148]

I can only hope Aaron. I've found some boo-boos that KTM made. Cab doors ought to swing out on Challenger and the model was built with inward swinging doors......I may have to leave that.

Interesting point. The water hatches on the tender are held on by a screw from inside the tender....not soldered.