Battery Powered Radio Control

[stephen neill]

Answering E7s comment first, if the battery only operates just the controls it can be a much smaller battery, and perhaps the modification to the engine would be less.

What I want is to be able to pick say 6 or more older engines from a total of 40 and run them independently on a large layout with as little modification to the engines as possible. Before DCC this was done with DC using a lot of blocks and complicated wiring.

BPRC would eliminate a lot of the wiring (switches and signals would still need to be controlled), but getting a powerful enough battery is an issue.

The battery could operate just the controls, and the controls would pick up current from the track and control the amount of current going to the engine.

Steve

[Tom Dempsey]

Sounds like basic DCC if you remove the battery, have you looked at Blue Rail Trains?

[ScaleCraft]

Answering E7s comment first, if the battery only operates just the controls it can be a much smaller battery, and perhaps the modification to the engine would be less.

What I want is to be able to pick say 6 or more older engines from a total of 40 and run them independently on a large layout with as little modification to the engines as possible. Before DCC this was done with DC using a lot of blocks and complicated wiring.

BPRC would eliminate a lot of the wiring (switches and signals would still need to be controlled), but getting a powerful enough battery is an issue.

The battery could operate just the controls, and the controls would pick up current from the track and control the amount of current going to the engine.

Steve

Describe older engines. Open frame? Field wound?

LS is Large Scale. At least twice the size of 0. Heavy stuff. If I can get six hours out of one charge of battery hauling up and down four percent with varying loads, one wonders why finding "a powerful enough battery is an issue."?

Of those 40 engines, do you intend on running six on radio and 34 on conventional track power at the same time?

[ScaleCraft]

It is counterproductive.

Should you want to go down that path, bridge rectumfrier and voltage regulator for battery eliminator works on full track voltage.

At this point, just do DCC.

There is radio dcc.

If you want radio/battery, what you are asking for is not.

To circumvent poor switches and dirty track, install Super Caps.

[E7]

There is radio dcc.

Dave, Would you do a brief description please??

Thanks,
Rich

[ScaleCraft]

S-Cab. DeadRail. TAM Engineering. NCE. Digitrax.
With dcc, signal on the rails, as well as power. Radio transmitter communicates with trackside receiver, sends appropriate signal down the rails to selected receiver/decoder.

You can piggyback receiver to decoder and go direct. Replace track power with battery. Or use rails.

If you're gonna keep track power, just use dcc with radio link to trackside receiver.

[webenda]

That's 4.5 AH or Amp/Hour (one amp for one hour).

That's 4.5 AH or Amp Hour (4.5 amps for one hour or 1 amp for 4.5 hours.)

So how long will this battery last with my Williams Dash-9 which draws 2.5 to 2.75 amps, depending on the number of cars and speed of the train?

Battery AH / Engine current = 4.5 AH/ 2.5 A = 1.8 Hours
Battery AH / Engine current = 4.5 AH/ 2.75 A = 1.6 Hours

I fly electric airplanes that draw more current than any of my train engines. A small motor can draw 12 amps. How long can I fly the airplane?

You might think Battery AH / Engine current = 4.5 AH/ 12 A = 0.375 Hours or 22 minutes.

The formula for how long the battery will power something fails at high currents. My airplane only flys for 10 minutes at full power (12 amps) using 4.5 AH Nickle Metal Hydride batteries.

[Greg Elmassian]

If you are going to keep track power, and you want to run multiple locos and you want the lowest cost, then go DCC, it's already proven, lots of options, etc.

I don't see any reason to do "deadrail" which is normally throttle talks directly to locomotive over the air, if you have track power.

Greg

[E7]

If you are going to keep track power, and you want to run multiple locos and you want the lowest cost, then go DCC, it's already proven, lots of options, etc.

I don't see any reason to do "deadrail" which is normally throttle talks directly to locomotive over the air, if you have track power. Greg

There are certainly reasons to go RC battery.....no need for track wiring, and track cleaning issues right off the top, and it's been around long enough and used successfully by many that you can't say it's unproven. I could be wrong, but I think it will eventually become the main power option. We shall see.

[ScaleCraft]

If you are going to keep track power, and you want to run multiple locos and you want the lowest cost, then go DCC, it's already proven, lots of options, etc.

I don't see any reason to do "deadrail" which is normally throttle talks directly to locomotive over the air, if you have track power. Greg

There are certainly reasons to go RC battery.....no need for track wiring, and track cleaning issues right off the top, and it's been around long enough and used successfully by many that you can't say it's unproven. I could be wrong, but I think it will eventually become the main power option. We shall see.

Except we're talking stuff all over the spectrum right now.
Radio/Battery was good...started this thread...and suddenly we are running the motors on track power?
If you are keeping all the track power, wiring, cleaning, maintenance, it is silly to go fully battery...and a real head scratcher to have the battery just control the radio receiver.

Greg knows me....and I him..and his forte is dcc, mine is Battery r/c.
Like I said earlier, if you are maintaining all track power, just do dcc. With a wireless cab even, but dcc.

[bob turner]

I predicted - wrongly, apparently - that by 2020 we would see inexpensive RC/battery train sets, thus making the center rail a thing of nostalgia.

I am still predicting that - but it will take a few more years. The technology is there - now defunct Radio Shack sold model cars and trucks complete with batteries and transmitters a decade ago for under $50.

I am ready to convert, but waiting for the $100 version, with sound.

[ScaleCraft]

I predicted - wrongly, apparently - that by 2020 we would see inexpensive RC/battery train sets, thus making the center rail a thing of nostalgia.

I am still predicting that - but it will take a few more years. The technology is there - now defunct Radio Shack sold model cars and trucks complete with batteries and transmitters a decade ago for under $50.

I am ready to convert, but waiting for the $100 version, with sound.

Hunnnert Bux with China increasing cost...lots of luck.

There are a couple (several) r/c units out there with sound...and the sound sux. "Oh, you want generic diseasemal or generic steam?"

You want quality that won't go "POOF!" in a cloud of smoke and sound you can work with...well...quality costs a bit more.

R/C, quality sound, charger, batteries, and full install on a loco not designed for it can cost you a grand. But, I have locos here in use that have been converted for close to 25 years. One or two have original NiCads.
Had a guy bring a couple of engines over Friday to sort out....divorced, moved, got re-married, moved again, lost the transmitters and charger. Opened them up to confirm frequency of radio, dug out some used transmitters and a new charger, charged up theb original NiCads and they ran all over the railroad...now he has to dig out the rest of the engines (one he brought was an AristoCrap FA painted Long Island and the other a USA F3A in PRR....but it's set up default reverse...and no sound...and he realized there is a dummy "B" and another powered "A" with sound default forward...so he'll have a string. EVERYTHING has gotten more expensive. R/C, sound, batteries....but they run and run and run.

[E7]

What we have here is a bunch of posts with different priorities/agendas.

Depending on a proposed house remodel, my power will most likely be RC Battery or plain old DC, with the odds on the latter at slim to none, and the third choice being display/sell, depending on how long I am more or less healthy. DCC ain't NEVER going to be an option, and I don't care one whit about sound. I am always amused by these folks that set out to "soundproof" their track.......isn't that the sounds made by the train running that they are trying to elininate??? Then we'll pipe in some artificial crap through little speakers. Makes no sense to me. If the noise bothers me, that's why they make ear plugs!

The only purpose I can see for track power with RC Battery is if you could recharge your batteries off of a powered section section of track.

[ScaleCraft]

What we have here is a bunch of posts with different priorities/agendas.

The only purpose I can see for track power with RC Battery is if you could recharge your batteries off of a powered section section of track.

Yes. And I can tell you stories. When folks think they know more than the folks who do it for a living, and are going to re-invent the wheel with zero abilities....the results can be catastrophic.

Couple of stories:

One off a LS Train forum several years ago....owner ran his trains outside all day long, run the engines into a shed where a HUGE amperage charger (not a smart charger) was connected to the rails. He had "calculated" the maximum amperage per loco...ass-umed the power would divide properly...parked the engines, turn on the charger, turned off the lights, and went to bed.

Next day he approached the shed and found the aroma of burned electrics and melted plastics.

Dirty wheels....hadn't figured that.....all those amps went into ONE engine...and it was a puddle...and the charger was toast.

I ALWAYS have a distinct charge port on each loco.

Next, Cincinnati GR Convention...post convention complaint from participant showing his railroad. Had a passing track on the back side, HIGH rate (non-smart) NiCad charger to charge through the rails/wheels in that portion.

Run one train for so long, park it, throw the switches, run the other one out while the first one charged.

Someone told him NiMH was the way to go, so one loco had new big NiMH batteries.

Without a smart charger, during the convention with 50 people in the yard, the NiMH loco on charge blew....up. I mean the cells vented so violently the loco was destroyed.

I ALWAYS have a distinct charge port on each loco.

Then there are the engineers who think they can use some rare, obsolete style battery found at a surplus store and build their own charger...because they KNOW what it takes....and burned their shed down.

But I digress.

[E7]

Dave, Thanks again for your insights.

Rich